Have you ever wondered what it looks like to build a life around your energy instead of against it?
In this episode, I sit down with Bend local legend Shanan Kelley, writer, comedian, MC, benefit auctioneer, yoga teacher, and Human Design Practitioner. We talk about how discovering she was a 6/2 Emotional Projector transformed her business, relationships, and boundaries, why relief is the clearest sign you're honoring your design, and how comedy became her way through grief.
We also explore losing her best friend during COVID, the power of deep listening, and why "be kinder to yourself" may be the most radical advice a woman can hear.
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Full Episode Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated, so a few words may be a little off.
Shanan Kelley: the feeling of relief for a projector I think is a really important tell. If you cancel something or you say no to something and you feel an immediate rush of relief, like that's a big piece of information that you need to pay attention to. And I think a lot of what I'm connecting to are those gifts that I came in with and those understandings that I came in with, the things that like have always been something that made me feel good or felt right for me.
Sasha Pearl: Have you ever wondered what it actually looks like to build your life around your energy instead of against it? Today on the podcast we have Shannon Kelly. She is a local legend in Bend. She is a comedian, an MC, a human design practitioner, a yoga teacher, and also a 6-2 emotional projector. So we are going to be discussing all things projector energy, building a life around her unique energetics, and how humor can change lives. But before we hop into this episode, I'd love to share with you my newest offering. As you all know, I have been going through many, many pivots at Design to Be Human over here, but I am finally going to be offering human-first content creation. So if you are serious about building your Instagram following, you are wanting to show up fully expressed in the world, this is your time. we'd be going through your unique energetics, how to show up in a way that feels aligned to you, and create a strategy from there so you can show up consistently on social media. I will say consistency is one thing that I've always had an issue with, and it's also the one thing that holds us all back. So if you need someone to hold you accountable for the growth of That you desire for the visibility that you desire for you to finally show up and create content that doesn't feel cringe. I'm your girl. Hit me up. the link to book a call with me are going to be in the show notes. And I look forward to chatting with you. With further ado, we are now gonna hop into the episode with Shannon Kelly. So let's get into it. Today on the podcast, we have Shannon Kelly, a bend local legend and one of my favorite humans that I get to speak to now on a weekly basis. Shannon, thank you for being on the podcast. I would
Shanan Kelley: Thanks for having me. I'm so happy to be here. You're the best.
Sasha Pearl: You're the best. I would love to hear what you do in the world. Let the fans know.
Shanan Kelley: What do I do in the world? I I call myself a writer and an entertainer. I am a certified yoga teacher, I'm an informed practitioner of human design, I'm a comedian, a writer, an MC, and a benefit auctioneer. And so it's I always say like the same skill set, but just expressed in different contexts. So I mean I'm working a lot with energy. I'm you know, creating spaces for people to gather and like have a nice time together and feel really good together in community and it just looks like lots of different things. I do a a lot of fundraisers and conferences and business events and yeah, it's great.
Sasha Pearl: I love that. What do you so Shannon is a 6'2 emotional projector. What shifted for you when you found out you were projecting?
Shanan Kelley: This is such a great question. So like everything shifted because I think prior to finding out I was a projector, I was trying to be all the energy types and it was exhausting. And when I found out I was a projector, I was like, I'm so relieved and like it feels right. And I'll say, like, lots of times when people and I don't know if you've observed this as well, I'd be so curious to know, but it seems like when people find out they're a projector, they're kinda like, no, I don't I don't get it. Like I hate it, you know? And there's like a period of like adjustment. And for me, I was like, that's the one I would have picked. Like That feels so right. And I will also say like it was it had such a profound impact on my business and how I was running my business. And that was like the thing that really super caught my attention. And then in the meantime, it's been also like so, so, so helpful in how I relate to the people that I care about the most. That has been
Sasha Pearl: Mm.
Shanan Kelley: super profound. In fact, like I'll I always use this as an example because I think it's so clear. But my teacher AC Brown, when we were like in our program, she had us like look at all of our important people. So like my mom, my two sisters, all my best friends. And then it was like someone that you hate and like someone you admire. And so getting to know what all of those different charts look like and how they compare to your own. And I was like, my mom and I process information totally opposite ways. That's really amazing information to have. And that transformed the way that we communicate and the way that we are together. And like I didn't actually have to change anything. I just like that piece of information. Something I became aware of and I'm like it smoothed things out between us in a remarkable way. So I feel like that's like such a good example of like the power of human design. I know you're doing it a lot with bigger groups and in corporate environments and things. And I'm like, that is like that's it. It just gives you such
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Shanan Kelley: a better picture of everything, you know.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, I always say the more that you can understand yourself, the more that you can understand people who are not like you or who are absolutely aligned with you. Right. So
Shanan Kelley: Right. Right. Yeah, totally.
Sasha Pearl: did you have your mom at do a human dis did you do a human disease design reading for your
Shanan Kelley: I have never done a design hook human design like a full reading, but like I will give her pieces of it and I will look at her chart. And like her and my two sisters have kind of like a lot of things that are sort of similar. And then I'm like, you know, I'm the middle child. So of course I have to express in my own unique way. But mine's like very different from theirs. And so again, I just think it's so helpful to like kind of know what I'm dealing with. I mean, all of my best girlfriends are generators, manifesting generators, all of them. And they yeah.
Sasha Pearl: I just gonna say and that's so crazy 'cause all my besties are like manifestors and projectors.
Shanan Kelley: I know and I thought that was so interesting that I was don't meet manifestors all that often. It is wild.
Sasha Pearl: That's so wild. Well, you have so much defined in your chart. But you have your ego and your emotional center defined, which are both motors. So you're an energetic projector.
Shanan Kelley: Yeah, yeah, I know. It's yeah, it's weird 'cause yeah, like I consider myself like I'm very much introverted. Like that's how I recharge, is like on my own, which you know makes sense looking at the human design, right? But then I can go out into the world and like interact with people in a really in a functional way, you know, so it's I can do both, but but like being in big groups it it's It's like energizing in the moment and then I have to like go home and stare at a wall for like three days to recover. You know what I mean?
Sasha Pearl: I'm like three weeks. Yeah. People are like, You're always so busy. And I'm like, I actually am just like hanging out with myself. Like it's Yeah.
Shanan Kelley: I know. I know. I call it dead bolting. I'm just I just lock that door. Don't call me, I'll call you.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. I won't even call them, to be honest.
Shanan Kelley: Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. And then I'll have like one full day to myself and I'm like, everything's delightful. I feel so you know. But I need that. I need that time and spaciousness, like big time.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, absolutely. So I would actually love to hear more too. Like when you how were you operating in your business before you found out that you were a projector? And then what were like the specific things that you shifted once you did find out that you were a projector and running your own?
Shanan Kelley: Yeah. I mean, I think like a profound reckoning with myself about like energetically what I'm up for and what I'm not up for has really been like the big shift. And that's something I continue to work on. So it really does come down to boundaries. And like, as you know, living in this community, there's just so much going on all the time. And if you let yourself get carried down the river in this town, like you will be a a shell of yourself if if you have what I have going on energetically. You know what I mean? And so, you know, in let's just say like before COVID, I was doing everything all the time for everyone, just showing up so much. And a lot of what was going on in my own house was like not getting the time and attention and tending that it needed. And so something very interesting happened with COVID. Like I essentially because I was Also doing a lot of events-based work at the time. Once COVID happened and everything shut down, I all my work canceled. And so I was on this kind of forced sabbatical for a period of time. And that was really when I discovered human design. That's when I had my first reading with my teacher. That's when I really started to learn more about it. And and then also at the same time, I had the spaciousness and the sort of like inactivity to. actually kind of settle into it. I mean, I think that like when you find out there there's so much of it as like an embodiment, you
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Shanan Kelley: know. And so again, like the timings like really interesting for me when I reflect back on that because if that COVID hadn't happened, I would have continued to keep working, working, working, working and putting out
Sasha Pearl: Mm.
Shanan Kelley: so much energy all the time. And so having that experience of like it was like the introverts were thriving. During COVID, you know what I mean? And so like having that like extended period of time to just sort of at my leisure, like take an online workshop or like color in a coloring book, or just like go on a nice long, slow walk. And not that I wasn't doing those things before, it just was such a concentrated dose. I mean several months, you know. And even still, as events were kind of happening that year, as the year went on, a lot of it was really virtual. So I still was like at home. And that was remarkable too, because To be someone who, you know, my work largely requires me to show up in person at
Sasha Pearl: Mm.
Shanan Kelley: the venue and I have to be there to deliver on what I'm what I'm executing, you know? And when and and so I just never felt like work from home was like even an option for me, right? And then all of a sudden it was. And that was also a really interesting experience because you just never know what might become possible. I mean, those were really interesting circumstances, but also like I was hosting fundraisers from my living room. So I'd have like a sparkly jacket on on top and then like sweatpants on the bottom, you know, like that it was just so silly and like we're just doing this now, you know? But that was a really interesting lesson for me just to go like, you know, there's so much possible that I haven't even considered yet. But when you're going,
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Shanan Kelley: going, going and never taking time to stop or pause or even evaluate, like, is this working? Do I want it to be like this? Do I want it to change? Or you don't have this time and space to do that, like you don't. You know, you have to just keep going.
Sasha Pearl: Right. Well you don't even Yeah, and you don't even know that you need the time or space until
Shanan Kelley: Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: you are literally forced to have it and you're like, instead of feeling Yeah, I w I
Shanan Kelley: Mm-hmm. Wait a minute. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: remember I distinctly remember being like, I feel relieved I can cancel everything. I don't have to be anywhere for anything and I felt so relieved by it and I was very concerned. I was like, What? How have I been operating?
Shanan Kelley: I mean this the feeling of relief for a projector I think is a really important tell. If you cancel something or you say no to something and you feel an immediate rush of relief, like that's a big piece of information that you need to pay attention to. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: my god. Yeah, I'm trying to do like more group hangs with everyone so I can do
Shanan Kelley: How's that going? Are you for efficiency's sake or yeah.
Sasha Pearl: Well I don't get a connection one on one. Yeah, for efficiency's sake. But then it's like,
Shanan Kelley: I know.
Sasha Pearl: I feel like I didn't get enough one on one time and it's like just like the projector, you know, dream is to like be, you know, deep in conversation with with people. So
Shanan Kelley: Totally, I know. And I I f I feel you 'cause I'm like I try to be like efficient in that way too. Cause I'm like, okay, well I'll I'll hang out with this person by going for a walk because I need to go for a walk anyways. And then I'm like, what about just hanging out and having fun? Like what what about like not trying to multitask? You know, what about just sitting around and tootling and like I don't make enough space for that. But I recently had an experience with a really good friend of mine who's in town for a short stay, and we had this like full you know, probably twenty-four, little more than twenty-four hours together where we just like had so much fun. We tootled, we did all these fun things together and like I'm I'm just not doing that enough and I'd like to do it more. But it is, you know, you're running your own business and I've
Sasha Pearl: Yeah.
Shanan Kelley: got aging parents, which is like my latest excuse for everything in my life where I'm coming up short. I'm like, you know, it's like it there's just so many things. And also, and I know we talk about this a lot, but like there's you've got to make space for new opportunities to come in. So There's new stuff coming in all all the time and like where does that fit in and and yeah. It's tricky.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, I mean, yeah, creating this space is just like you've kind of had to like shut I just did this like double dog dare edition of something or of a reel and I was like, I double dog dare you if you're a manifesting generator or generator to delete it off your calendar, like one event off of your calendar. Well, because all they do it's people pleasing, right? There's they generate
Shanan Kelley: Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: they're sacredly defined. They have a lot of people pleasing that happen.
Shanan Kelley: Well, I think too for them it's so interesting because their natural state is to like go, go, go, go, go. And the way that our current culture is set up, it's like it will run them into the ground and that's not the point. And I think for them to like separate from that, you know, is like could be a real reckoning.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. Yeah, it's it's multi-layered here. But I was like, do it. What would happen?
Shanan Kelley: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Sasha Pearl: Also, I'm I'm actually curious, is like what are the questioning like what's the fears that are coming up if you were to do it? Right? Cause I want you to
Shanan Kelley: yeah.
Sasha Pearl: write those. Like that's just an experiment of like even if you don't cancel that event, what were those fears coming up and those questions you were asking yourself? And why you wouldn't do it, right?
Shanan Kelley: Yeah, that's so intelligent because you wanna figure out like who's really running the show here. Is it me? Is it like
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Shanan Kelley: me, my higher self, me, or is it like my little wounded self who feels insecure, who, you know, who was operating on this old programming that no longer applies? And like I think the pacing of things really sets us up to like be on autopilot and it's like it's fine that all those parts of us and pieces of us are existing and are are asking for attention or whatever, but like they're not allowed to make the decisions on how our life is gonna go, you know? Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: yeah, absolutely. Well and I think I mean, I don't know about you, but I feel like we're mostly running on that version of ourselves a lot of the time. It is our
Shanan Kelley: It's hard. Well yeah, these I think all the conditions are like set up for it to be that way. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. It actually prefers it to be that way. So you are also a sixth line, which we love. So I want
Shanan Kelley: Yes, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Sasha Pearl: to hear a little bit more about your story and how you've gotten into comedy and mcing and auctioneering. Like it's a very unique skill set that you have and a human design practitioner and a yoga teacher. Like these are all
Shanan Kelley: And
Sasha Pearl: very different things, but like have you know have similar like you're connecting a community together.
Shanan Kelley: yeah, I think I think what what I'm doing is just following things that are interesting to me and then getting in a little too deep with them, right? Like maybe you don't have to do all those things. But also I am I am a naturally very curious person and I cultivate curiosity in my life. So it's gonna make sense that there's gonna be different things and I'm always gonna be evolving. And I I actually really love the element of my life that is like many different things. Like I'm I'm never bored. There's just no space for it. And so I I'm grateful for that. But like I think what's so interesting too about the sixth line is like I'm coming to understand this sort of like late bloomer business around the six line. Cause I would, you know, I have been working my face off since I was a literal child. And so I'm like, what do you mean late bloomer? What are you talking about, late bloomer? Like how could this be late? But also the way that has gone just in terms of, you know, what I've learned along my path is that the way that it feels like it feels more aligned now. And I think that will continue to to bloom as the years go on. So my story, I was like quite shy as a young person. I like could not separate from my mom. I like couldn't take dance classes 'cause I couldn't like be away from my mom. And then yeah and then like eventually going into school and maybe discovering like the social aspect of myself that started to evolve. And then when I got to college actually I started performing. I like took drama one on one and I was like, wait a sec, this is like a real thing. I really love this. And and so that's when my performance started to kind of come online. And then what happened was really interesting. I after college I was working as like a server and a bartender to support doing shows. I was living in Seattle at the time where I grew up. And so pretty quickly I was like, ooh, I don't want to work in restaurants anymore. And so I'm like set a goal. I don't want to do this anymore. And then along that path I got the opportunity to go back to school for skincare. I was like also working in a skincare clinic. So I went back to school. I got my aesthetics license. And then right after I got out of school I got an opportunity to like take over a practice from like a small private practice that a woman had been running. And so I just kind of stepped into her space and started my own business. And I was like 25 as a baby. And then that like really took off and I in within a year I had expanded to a larger space and I was like had two co op partners, really good friends of mine. and it was really, really good. And it was also really hard. A lot like just it, you know, running your own business that young and like learning as you go was just hard. So along that timeline, I wasn't performing. It just kind of had to fall to the back burner a bit. And it and that went on for about eight years. And I think in my sort of subconsciously, I was like, you know, like that ship has sailed and that's fine. And I was like being an adult. I was like being a grown up, you know, like having my business and doing my career. And then I had I took a job that I was really excited about. And at the time I would have described it as my dream job. And I always thought I would end up working at this particular spa, like, maybe one of my friends will buy it and they'll hire me to run it. Like I just said, my mind it was like five years from now in the work here, and then it just presented itself really much earlier than I thought. And right away my dream job turned into a nightmare. It was really, really super stressful. The the business, the work was hard and in a good way, right? I'm learning a lot. I have this amazing staff. It was an exciting time to be making changes in this. particular business and the person who was sort of managing me, the owner of the company, was really challenging. And it wasn't healthy. And so pretty quickly I was like, can I stay here and like not adopt these bad habits? Like, can I, should I leave? Should I, like, what's going on? And so I ended up leaving that job. And it was really interesting because I was like two months from turning 30. my boyfriend and I, who we were living together, we broke up. And it's this like this is the timeline. So we broke up on a Monday or Sunday, and then I had like one day off, and then I went to work and I knew I wasn't gonna go back to work the next day. So like within 48 hours, like my entire life changed and I'm two months from my Saturn return. I know. And then at that point I was like, okay, so all of that changed. Everything that I thought was something is different, and I'm ready to be kind of done with spa business. And I was consulting, I had just like a couple clients and I got an opportunity to come down to Bend to reopen the business that had closed. And they were like, you know, maybe four to six weeks. And I like, I'm gonna wrap this up in three. And they were like, we would love for you to like stick around and fall in love and become like they're like, you know, fall in love with the work and become the person who like runs this business. And I was like, there's no way that's happening. I was literally like Googling like, there's a whole foods in Bend. Like I can survive for a month, you know? And so I get down here and right away I was like, what is this? magical place and it was a unique time to move to Ben because it was right after things really crashed. So I came down here in 2009, right at the end of the summer. I was just meeting these wonderful people who had like many of them grown up in the area and we worked together and reopened this business and I did that for a couple of years. And then when I was ready to be done with that business, I was like, okay, now what? You know, like I just I barely survived this recession. And I have no idea what I'm doing in this random place. And I started a variety show. it was called Tin Pan Theater Presents the Night Light Show with Shannon Kelly and Magnificent Guests. And so me and a group of friends started this like lovely little live community-based variety show. And at the time there wasn't really anything going on like that in bed. There weren't a lot of there was a small comedy scene, there's a you know, you definitely could find live music, but it wasn't like it is now where you've got drag shows and a vibrant theater community. And you know, we just was it wasn't like that at that time. And so I think it really like met a need. And we did that for many, many years. It was super fun. And along that path I started getting asked to MC like fundraisers and conferences. And I was kind of like, interesting. Let's just try this on and see if I like it. And like I just never gave up on it. And it's it's really gone through many evolutions. I mean, COVID was a really interesting time and then AI came on the scene. So like things have changed and shifted quite a lot. But but I I don't mind that either because you know, each year is different. And I'm kind of like, you know, on the one hand, it's nice kind of having that practice of like trusting it's all gonna work out some way, and then also knowing like, and there's space for me to like change it. if I want to, there's a certain openness every time I like start a new year, I'm like, well, there's a certain amount that's still sort of left unwritten at this point and I can just be open and see what might happen, you know? Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm. Yeah. What would you say is like the philosophy you hold within the work that you share with the world?
Shanan Kelley: gosh, that is a really beautiful question. I mean, I I I want to like answer it in a couple different ways. And one thing that is like very, very much on my mind, because I'm like, okay, this is like literally part of my stand-up set. And I think it could be perceived as like quite basic, which is this message of like, I really need people to be kinder to themselves. And it sounds really simple, right? And like it's actually a really, really important concept for us right now because we have this real problem with misogyny, right? We have this real problem with like self-loathing and being critical and and hating women. And I I'm not gonna argue this point with anybody. Like there have been studies on what we're doing with this and we see examples of it all day long. And we have adjusted ourselves in response to it, you know, for our whole entire lives. And so, you know, I think we're also at this interesting point right now where like People, some people are like uninterested in big words. So instead of saying like we need to heal our inherent misogyny, we can say we need to be kill kinder to ourselves. And that's how we do that thing. And I think too, like it's so interesting because everybody can do that. And everybody must do that. And it makes a really big impact right away. Like if you like if you were sitting in a room, I think of this all the way like I'll be in a cafe. And I'm like, if everybody in here just started being nicer to themselves and kinder to themselves, like things would shift immediately. And if you're talking about that with people and you're encouraging other people to do that, like things really will shift quickly. I mean it makes everything better. It makes everything easier. It just does. And I I don't know why we have such a resistance to I I I mean I do know why we have such a resistance to it. But I'm also like it's remarkable. I mean I'll be talking to people who are intelligent and successful and all of the things and they're like, well I couldn't possibly be kinder to myself and they kind of make a joke about it, you know? But I'm like, what are we doing here? What are we doing with this?
Sasha Pearl: Wait, so let's pack Yeah, let's pack what that let's unpack that a little bit. Because what do you what is the belief system that you think a lot of people hold about being kind to themselves? And then what are you here to like transform and how do you help people be kinder to themselves?
Shanan Kelley: Yeah, I mean, I personally think laughter is like the most remarkable tool for healing, self-healing. Healing is a community. It can help us like have difficult conversations. It can help us stay in a room when we feel uncomfortable. It also physiologically you go through a process in your body that is helping you process any number of things when you laugh. And it's interesting because I think we can compare laughter to crying or sneezing or coughing. And it it's just whatever you're holding in the heart. your body is moving it out through your throat chakra, right? That's essentially what is happening. So if it's joy or it's grief, you know, sometimes those often I think exist together at the same time. Okay, so we have that part of it. What are people believing about themselves that makes it difficult for them to be kinder to themselves? I just think it's programming. It's just old programming. And I can't speak to what everyone is doing with that, but I can say in myself like it is insidious, right? Like I have a joke that I make where I'm like, you know, If I had grown up rich, my face would look different. Do you know what I mean by that? Do you know what I mean by that? Like because as a young person, exactly, as a young
Sasha Pearl: Because you put like a no or like a
Shanan Kelley: person, I'm like looking at magazines and I wanna be, you know, I'm like, I remember learning about yoga as a young person. And it was like, a way to be long and lean. And like, here's the thing there's no amount of yoga that I can do that's gonna make my legs six inches longer. I have the legs that I have. And they're amazing and they work and they do what they, you know, but like I spent a lot of time in my life being very self-critical and not even aware that that voice was in there and that that voice was mine. And I didn't in my heart create that voice, it came from somewhere. Okay, so it came
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Shanan Kelley: from the messages constantly being given to us. I mean, even just today, I was like looking at a post Jamila Jamil posted. She's like definitely such a wise person in this space, right? And she was making the point of like This is what people call curvy. Like when I was growing up, like Kate Winslett in Titanic was just like, we just couldn't believe how you know she's a totally normal, beautiful, beautiful person, very talented, all the things. And like Jessica Simpson, you know, we all see the image of Jessica Simpson on stage where she has a totally beautiful, normal body. She's absolutely stunningly beautiful, but the message is like, she's too big. She's too the, you know, anytime anyone sort of gets out of line, they're too big, they're too much, they're too loud, they're too It's constant. It's constant. And so
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Shanan Kelley: I was at a theater the other day watching a movie about artists, and a really beautiful documentary about artists. And there was a woman sitting behind me and Sasha, it was so wild because when I first came in, I thought my seat was near her. And so I walked in and it was weird vibes, right? And then it turned out my seat was in the front. So my friends came in, they're like, you to move to the front. And so I was like, I have to move. So everyone had to stand up again. So this woman, she is stands up. I mean, our faces are this close. Okay, so I want to really read this to you. Our faces are this close. And I am a silly person all the time. I'm I am warm. I am like it just comes naturally. And I was like, you guys are gonna be sick of me by the end of the night. She's right here and she said, Yep. She looked me right in my eyes, and I was like, okay. And then I heard her be nasty to another person, and then I heard her be nasty to a second person and nasty to a third person. And then I'm watching the film, and there's an MC and she's doing her thing and she's brilliant, she's awesome. And I hear the lady lean over to her husband and well, for a reporter, she has terrible addiction. And I was like, I know what this is. I know what this is. This is a deep programming. This is a deep misogyny. This is a deep distrust of women. This is like a deep self-loathing that she is it's so ingrained, she doesn't even recognize. That it's not who she truly is. And like it's so sad. It makes me so sad. I felt so sad. And I think, you know, again, I can't, I'm not we lose the plot when we think we're gonna like save the world, but but I can definitely give you a space to come laugh. And I can hopefully use my brain to create content that maybe allows us to talk about something that's. you know, not just low-hanging fruit, which I think we see a lot from comedians. So I mean this is an interesting, I'm like really meandering now, but like this is also kind of an interesting thing that I'm thinking about when I think of myself as a comedian or somebody who creates opportunities for people to laugh. Like I don't I'm not like a club comedian. Right. There's like
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Shanan Kelley: a very straightforward, very traditional version of like a comedian that does this and this and this and you see that person in this environment. And then they do this, and this is the path forward for them. And I don't necessarily identify with that. You know, I'm like, well, I I want to do it in this way. And so what does that mean for me? How do I find opportunities to offer that? How do I, you know, it's it's an ongoing conversation I'm having with myself that is very interesting and also is kind of like, hmm, I mean, what when it comes to comedy, I mean, I think there's certainly ways to do it wrong, but I don't necessarily think there's one way to do it right. So then the possibilities are like very, very open and endless in that in that respect, in that line of work, you know.
Sasha Pearl: Mm. I love that. It feels like y be kinder to yourself is almost like a tagline of your life. Well
Shanan Kelley: Yeah. I know. Well yeah, 'cause I mean I've been there, right? Like I had a my best girlfriend and I got to take this like amazing vacation together a couple of years ago. And it was a such a special trip and it was really interesting because here I have done all of this inner work to take away those mean inner monologues and like really hold myself accountable to being kind and being loving and having an an unconditional loving relationship with myself. And on this particular trip, I was like, my God, I didn't even notice it. But I was doing, I was like having this little conversation with myself that was not kind. And I vocalized that to my friends, like my best girlfriend. And she was like, I don't even know what you're talking. Like, I don't even know how to compute what you're talking about right now. Like, how is that something that you're doing? And I'm like, you're telling me, like, this is shocking to me. And so, you know, what we can do is every time it comes up, because it is so insidious, it's like, well, I became aware of it. And then I had an intention to heal it and I released it and it was gone. And then, you know, rinse and repeat. Like it's gonna come up again and again and again. And also I think when we're especially being, and now I can only speak to myself, but like especially being a woman who is visible in the world, there's so much negotiating that we're doing. And so it is easy, I think, for those little inner villain voices, as my teacher likes to call it, to come in and just make a comment. I also think, Sasha, like it's so funny to think of us as a people we're like really trained to write reviews about everything. So, like everybody is just constantly giving feedback all the time. And what I will say is like in my line of work, the feedback that a man who does what I do gets and the feedback that a woman who does what I do gets are two very different types of things. And it's wild because intelligent, evolved, kind, beautiful people don't even recognize it. They're just so used to how we speak about women differently than men. How our expectations are different for men and women, you know, or anyone who sort of doesn't fit that, like, you know, specific.
Sasha Pearl: That mold.
Shanan Kelley: Yeah. And it is like, I mean, it can be the silliest thing. I have a mentor. She's an amazing, amazing auctioneer. Amazing. I can say nothing bad about this person. Because not only is she so proficient and so excellent in her work as an auctioneer, she's also a warm, beautiful, kind, generous. Funny person. I mean, I could go on and on and on. She was in a like a post mortem for an event one time, and like on the survey, someone was like, I didn't like the dress she was wearing. The color washed her out. And I'm like, what are we talking about? What are we doing here? This is this is that's it. That's not about her. It's not about her dress. It's not about the color of her dress. It's that
Sasha Pearl: Like everything outside of you. Yeah.
Shanan Kelley: person and the programming that they have not taken the time to.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Shanan Kelley: So I'm like, you know, I wanna push I wanna put it back on the person who needs to do the work, you know.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm. I I I find it actually really refreshing that you are so clear on like what is yours to own and what
Shanan Kelley: Mm.
Sasha Pearl: is the other person's to own. And I I say that often to him like it has nothing to do with me. Actually it has everything to do with them. And
Shanan Kelley: Right. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: I think that is actually a pretty I don't think a lot of people think like that either, to be honest.
Shanan Kelley: Yeah, I think I know. I think 'cause I think that is like a really strong choice and then it's like a practice because it's so easy, you know, we've all been trying to get what we want out of life and then also stay safe. And so those two things are at odds with each other and they also just exist. And so how do you get to the point where you one become aware of it and then two know what to do with it? And I would just say like at this point for those of us who are like living a life where we have access to tools that can help us. Like there's no excuse and you know Get in there. Set yourself free. Like set yourself
Sasha Pearl: You are talking superjects.
Shanan Kelley: free, right? Because like I I went to that film that I referenced before. I went to that film and I like had I wept through the whole thing. It was so beautiful. Was so inspired. I'm so glad that I went. I was connected to my friends. I was celebrating the people. You know, these are the film was about artists. I've watched them grow for 17 years. I've known these people for so I mean like I'm just so proud. I'm so honored. I can't believe I know these people and I get to see this work. It's And like this person over here is just being critical and just building a wall around themselves where they can't actually have fun, deep connections on the spot with people. And it's just set yourself free. You know, you're just missing out on so much. It's really sad.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, it is really sad, especially when you like built a fortress around you. It's like you can't see out and y you can't see in either, almost
Shanan Kelley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think like I here's another thing that I have in my act, right? It's like you're never gonna get to the end of your life and be like, God, I wish I had been a bigger dick to myself and then like drop dead. You know, like that's never gonna happen you're never gonna be like, I wish I hadn't cooked all those massages and then like kick the bucket. You know, it's just not gonna happen like that. And so I am thinking a lot about like what what do how do I wanna feel at the end? I can tell you there's a few things that I do not want to feel at the end, and like that's it.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. Yeah. I think I had I had a friend ask me once, like, what do you want people to say at your funeral?
Shanan Kelley: Mm.
Sasha Pearl: And I'm like, I hope that in any interaction I've had with someone that they were amplified more in the world by being around me and that they could, you know, just be happier and see themselves more by
Shanan Kelley: Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: just me reflecting as a mirror for them. Right. It's like
Shanan Kelley: Yeah, that's so beautiful. You do that. You do that. Yeah. I mean, that's part of my like pre event prayer. Like one of the things I'll say is like, may I set the stage for people to shine as brightly as they possibly can. Because and, you know, specifically about my work on stage, like one of the things I do often is like provide a safe space for someone to tell their own story and feel confident and not feel nervous and not have to be responsible for showing up and performing in a certain way 'cause I'm there acting as the moderator, helping them. stay on track and all of the things. And so yeah, I mean, that's a real gift that you can get give people. And I also think people aren't always aware that someone's doing that for them. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: No, no, absolutely not. No. But I do I definitely want to make sure that anyone who like comes into my orbit feels better leaving than they did when they came in. I do know that. And
Shanan Kelley: Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: if I can offer that to them, even if it's small, like a smile, like to like a cashier or whatever, that's that I want to hold that space absolutely.
Shanan Kelley: Totally. Yeah. And you do. You do. I mean I feel that with you for sure. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: And so And so do you. You're really good at what you do. Yeah.
Shanan Kelley: No, we're really working hard over here. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: Well, and so I kinda wanted to go back into this like your sixth line again, because I think when you speak and you're talking about, you know, kindness, it's like it's so innate within you. Is this something that you ever had to learn or have you always just known from a young, we age baby Shannon, that kindness is actually what trans like transcends barriers.
Shanan Kelley: That's such a good question. I mean, I think probably like many people, you know, we come in a certain way and then a bunch of stuff gets piled on top of that. You know, you're I can say like I spent a lot of time in my life like really worried about bills and surviving and having a job and having and dealing with anxiety and you know, going through relationships that were not for me or, you know, like I I feel like there's jeff definitely like a version of me that sort of showed up to the world, like, yeah, I think it should be like this. And then I'm like, it's not like that. And I you learn that in retrospect, right? And I think that as I have gotten older and and certainly these last several years, the deep healing journey that I have been on these last like if we're just looking at let's say like the last six years, the way I often describe it is that I feel more like my younger self. And I think a lot of what I'm connecting to are those gifts that I came in with and those understandings that I came in with, the things that like have always been something that made me feel good or felt right for me. And like now I'm, you know, I have the time and the space in my life to like investigate that a little bit better. So I definitely, you know, I can also like in in the specifics when it comes to humor, I as a younger person. didn't have the maturity and the skillfulness that I have with my humor now, where you know, maybe I used sarcasm and hurt somebody's
Sasha Pearl: Mm.
Shanan Kelley: feelings. And I'm and I can't I can't give you like specific examples, but I can say like I do have an example from like junior high or high school where like a friend got their feelings hurt. And I don't even remember
Sasha Pearl: Yeah.
Shanan Kelley: what it was, but I can remember being like, I didn't mean it like that. And I think with humor as your gift, like there's a great responsibility that comes along with it. And I think it takes years to learn it. And I will also say like I've always felt, you know, like here I live in this place in Bend and people like doing all this extreme sports. So like skiing and running and jumping off cliffs and like jumping into lakes and all this stuff. And I yeah, for fun. And I don't do any of that. But like being on stage and using humor is like my extreme sport because at any second it can take a hard left turn into like a territory you never intended to be in. So, you know, it's that interesting balance of like, okay, I can push it. right where I need to push it, but like one step over that line and like it's bad. So
Sasha Pearl: That is so true. I never even thought about that. my god.
Shanan Kelley: Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: Humor as an extreme sport. Wow.
Shanan Kelley: Or even just live performance, right? Live performance in general. It's like it is so wild. I mean, you just never know. And like I have to have a lot of grace with myself because even like I had an auction on Saturday and there was this moment that looking back, I was like, I could have said something about the Colonel. And I did. There was like a man dressed up as like the Colonel from KFC and it was like hysterical. And he's like a very wonderful person. He made a big donation. He's like a huge, you know, really important part of this community. And like, you know, you're holding so I'm holding so much. I'm doing so many things. I'm keeping track of so many things. And I just didn't quite get this additional little opportunity to like make this fun little connection with this person. I'm like, but like that that's it. It's wild. It's live. It happens one time. You know, I have to really hold back from being critical of myself of myself in those moments because I'm never gonna be able to get all of it. You know, it's just yeah.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, especially if you're like allowing it. Like you can well actually I don't know. How do you set up your talks? Isn't it it's do you have like a s some sense of structure and then whenever something like pops in you kind of go for it?
Shanan Kelley: Yeah, yeah. I mean generally what I would say like when I'm preparing for something, like I create this much content, let's just say, and then I know I'm gonna use this much of it because then this much of it is gonna like happen live in the moment. There's gonna be stuff that I couldn't have prepared for because something just happens and it leaves to something else, right? So I try to do leave some wiggle room there, unless it's something that's like heavily scripted. But even like, you know, for the comedy show that we had at the tower a couple weeks ago that you were at, like there were things about my set. That I executed different in the moment. And it's because of you. I was doing it with you guys. We were creating that together. We were co-creating that together. Right. And so there's it had to be like that for that example. And it's like for me to, I think, just take a moment and understand, like, that's that's what's at play here. Like that's always gonna, that's always gonna be the variable. And so then it's like, you know, again, it is, I think, one of those things too, where like it just it just takes practice because the what I do when I'm doing live on stage, I can only really practice it and get better at it by doing it in front of a live audience, working with a live audience. And so that is like so wild, you know?
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. Well and I'm looking at your human design right now too. And like your core gift is leadership, like leadership with the people, gate seven. But like what grounds you in that is gate thirteen of listening. And so
Shanan Kelley: Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: your listening skills are very like you're gonna hear something that you're through knowing in your body that other people are not gonna pick up on and then that's why you say it. So I think a lot of there's I feel like there's so much gifting in this placement of your gate thirteen too.
Shanan Kelley: Yeah, the game yeah, totally. And actually I would say it's like the thing I'm most rely on relying on when I'm performing. And I actually had such an amazing up example of this that came up recently. So I teach at Groove Yoga and our thing there is that we play music. And so I've been teaching there for like 15 years and so we always play the music and then a couple months ago our Wi-Fi wouldn't work. And so I had to do a c a class without the music. And it was amazing because it was so much easier for me to just like drop some punchlines in because I could hear the moment when it was time to do that. And I was like, that was like really valuable information. And I've I always am aware of this and I'll say it to people all the time. Like, you know, in the same way that being a good writer is someone who's a good reader and a strong reader, they're reading a lot. It's the same thing with speaking. Like you have to be a good listener. And maybe that's not true for everyone, but I'm like, you're having a conversation with the people that you're with, you know, so you're gonna really need to use your ears. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: Well and I think what's really and so gate thirteen and seven are actually part of my core gifts too, but on the unconscious side.
Shanan Kelley: Mm.
Sasha Pearl: And I would say that my god, I lost my entire train of thought. Hold on. Where was it going? Where was it going?
Shanan Kelley: Yeah, I mean well, I think what's also interesting is like with the listening thing, because I have always certainly in the years since I have been engaging with my human design, I'm like, that makes sense. And I really and the more you rely on a gift like that, the more you'll be able to count on it. And so I'm like really big on the listening thing. And I was neglecting the other ways that intuition shows up for me. And so now I'm like, okay, there's all these other ways that it shows up, not just the listening. And that was a pretty big breakthrough for me as well. Okay, great. That's how that's how we do that.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, okay, it came back to me. So thanks for continuing. Yeah, yeah, that was good. That was good. what I think with the gate thirteen is actually one of the most precious gifts that we can
Shanan Kelley: Mm.
Sasha Pearl: have in the world today where where presence is not actually the norm anymore, I would say. I think that because we are not only projectors but have gate thirteen, we listen so deeply when we are in one to one relationships. And that is like such a gift in and of itself because we can be showing up in partnership or you know, relationships with other people and they probably haven't even been as present as we are with them as they are with themselves. Right. And so I just think it's like that currency in this world is so valuable. And I just love how
Shanan Kelley: Yeah, I agree.
Sasha Pearl: you're using it so intuitively within the comedy yeah and how you're doing it and you guys
Shanan Kelley: I remember I was doing like a f facilitation, like an employee, like a culture building day for a company here in town and a a team that I really admire and I was really excited about this event and it was amazing. But like there was we had like our morning session and I was laying out some ground rules and like one of them was active listening and we took a little break and this woman who is brilliant, and she's a younger woman, but she's brilliant. She's so smart, she's so gifted, all these things, and she was like Okay, so what did you mean by active listening? And I was like, no. Like no. I mean, how do
Sasha Pearl: too.
Shanan Kelley: I you know, I mean I just was like, Well, you know, like you're actively listening like you're really you know, I mean what
Sasha Pearl: 'cause it's so but also because like so
Shanan Kelley: Well
Sasha Pearl: innate to us where it's like, no, I've always been the person that people share everything with. Like people are just like, I just met you on an airplane. Like here's my entire life story. And I just hold it. Like that's just like one of it's part of my gifting as well. And I'm just like, thank you so much for sharing.
Shanan Kelley: Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Right. Yeah, it really. I know. Yeah. And that is like why boundaries are so important. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. I need those headphones that you're wearing on the airplane. I just have a like this yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no. I'm too open when I go in and people are like, my god, she's good she's nice, she'll talk to me and like, No, I'm not that nice.
Shanan Kelley: Yeah. Yeah. I don't fly without these. Yeah. And glasses and like a I'm like an astronaut on an airplane. I'm like
Sasha Pearl: So what are some things that really have shaped Think things in your life that have shaped you to be the comedian you are, to hold the philosophies that you do so then you can share those gifts and your magic with the world. Like what are some major like identity shifting moments for you?
Shanan Kelley: Yeah. I mean, I would say like anytime anything hard is happening, like my growing up, like my family is like a very funny family and also like super stressful. And and like I shared with you before, like they're they operate quite differently than me. So I think I came in and was kind of like, what is happening here? You know, as a young person. And so that obviously is huge. But then I would say like one very obvious thing to look at is in 20 When did it start? Well, in 2020, the first day of quarantine, actually, one of my dearest friends of all time passed away. And I was with her. I was part of her care team. I was like holding on to her as she took her last breath, which I I have not had an experience like that with a human. I have come into contact with death in many different ways, but that was like a really, really big, very transformative experience. And you know, I was part of her entire illness leading up to it. And and ever since then. because then like my response again, we went into COVID. So now I was like, I have this like sabbatical that I'm on. I have this time and space to just take care of myself and try to pull it together a little bit. I was not in a good it was really so intense.
Sasha Pearl: Too really impressive.
Shanan Kelley: Well, what's interesting is like in the months leading up to her passing, my career actually was really taking off. So it felt like it was super accelerating. I was out, I had been about a year out of my full time job that I quit to go full time doing what I'm doing. And so it was like really starting to happen. And then my friend Casey passed away. We're on freaking COVID. And like the weekend leading into that event, all my events canceled. I've never experienced that. You know, I'm like driving to we were doing a nightlight show. I'm driving there. I'm getting all these voicemails like, hey Shannon, we have to cancel our event. And I'm like, what is going on? You know, and we were so insulated to like our small group of friends that were taking care of her at the time. We were very like, I was like going to work and going Casey. And like at the time, my dog also like had a blown-out knee. And so I was like rehabbing him. So like the amount of care I was providing, I mean, it was really, it took me all the way to my knees. And so after that happened too, like I I was very clear, like, I'm gonna dedicate myself to my grieving process. And I trust that that is like the correct thing to do. I'm gonna be available to that and I'm gonna dive into it. I'm just gonna see what happens. And along that process, I have often wondered, like. What is the how do I want to say this? Like, what does this mean for me? Like, what does this mean for my work? Like, what does it look like to be someone who's a grief worker in the context of being a comedian? Like, is that a thing? And I think that it is. And I'll also say, like, people are often surprised by this, but like as we were going through, you know, we had about three and a half months of Casey being on home hospice, and like, yes, it was hard. And yes, we cried and yes, things were very stressful and all of that. And also we laughed a lot. We laughed a lot. It was friends hanging out, like we were ourselves, we were real, we were in the moment. We laughed a lot. And I will never forget that. And I know too, it's always been that way for me. And my my my friends who are also, you know, I think generally like comedians are people who are very smart and very sensitive. And so you're experiencing life in a really full way. And then you're like processing it through yourself and sharing it in a way that makes people laugh and relate to it. And so, you know, that is like the most life type of life you can do. You know, it's like it's really it's really profound. And so yeah, I mean, I think often too, when I'm talking to people about grief or when I'm hearing their stories, it's like That question of like when is it okay to laugh again always comes up and it's like it's always okay to laugh, you know. And then I think of course there's a question around like responsibility or being appropriate or whatever. But like if an opportunity comes to you to laugh and you can take that, like take it. I think it's to me again, you know, I said it before, but I think laughter is like a very similar mechanism to crying. And sometimes you are sick of crying. And so then you can laugh and your body's still getting that release that it so desperately needs. So yeah, I mean that really of course you don't you don't stay the same after an experience like that. You know, you just don't. And I think it continues to unfold for me. And and even just like losing someone who is young. Best friend grief is like a totally different bag. It's just a totally different bag. It's like super underestimated, I think, too, in terms of like the types of grief that we deal with in our life. And to be 40 years old and lose a best friend at that stage. It's just it's the saddest thing. And I would hope no one would ever have to go through that. And yet, so many of us do. And I think it's so important to give ourselves a space to just like talk about how the experience. changed us or what we learned from it or what it was like or even just to wallow in the parts of it where, you know, we questioned everything or we were just a mess or whatever. You know, I think it's it's a yeah, profoundly life-changing experience. And you know, not a day goes by that I don't think about her. So yeah, I mean, I feel very much too that I'm still in relationship to her, but like I
Sasha Pearl: Okay, I just think.
Shanan Kelley: also wish she was still embodied, you know, like I miss my friend and I'll never stop missing her. yeah.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. Well, I love I almost feels well to me, I I think it's really interesting the duality of like this deep, like heavy grief, and then also being able to honor the the laughter and the play and the joy of the moment while still processing so much grief that is like coming up. There there's like I feel like a lot of people want it to be either we're in grief and that's all there is, and we're only in joy and that's all there is. And it's like we can actually always exist in any moment in the full spectrum of it. And so What do we get to choose in the moment that if we are really embodied in who we are and really in our own present moment, like where are we at right now in this very moment? Right. And that's that's okay. Right.
Shanan Kelley: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I think it one thing that I have learned because I love getting older and I think that maturity is the gift of getting older. And I've often thought like, maturity is being able to be both happy and sad at the same time. And like when I was going through that specifically, I was like, I'm the happiest and saddest I've ever been. And like it's it is being able to hold it all at the same time. And I also think emotionality is like the next phase of our evolution as a species, you know, like I think about this a lot. Like, okay, there's like two things we do that are uniquely human. And that's like eat food and have emotions. So like we should probably do those things, you know, but I don't know that people are speaking the language of emotionality. And I think it's oftentimes when you're an emotional person or you speak that language and I trust me, I'm like, it's super in my chart and I'm still becoming more skillful at it and still understanding in my own way how to process it and express it. But like it is so important and I I I it's like it's very it can think it can be very almost lonely because other people are not making the most of emotionality. That it just it just isn't a language that we speak. And that's really absurd because it's a really unique aspect of being human.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think it kind of almost hits on this like aspect too of like being afraid to be vulnerable, being too much, taking up too much space when we are in those moments when actually it's like, my god, thank you so much for like just being so human and in your feelings
Shanan Kelley: Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: right now. That w guess what you just did for me. You you are now allowing me to show up in my fullness and in my humanness. And we get to then connect over over over it, which I think is just so powerful.
Shanan Kelley: Well i yeah, and I think there's two things. Like if you're not processing your emotions properly, and I can speak to this because I have very much, you know, in intellectualized them or just suppressed them or whatever. Like if you're not doing that, it's gonna stay in your body and it's gonna cause issues of some kind. That's just just how that works. The other thing I think that's so interesting is a lot like watching my friends and family raising children, the children that are existing are like very emotional. They're having very big emotions and it's wild because I'm watching my friends as parents like try to navigate this. And the way I feel about it's like our parents, certainly my parents and many of my friends' parents, like they're like, what are emotions? My little sister was like, I've seen our mom cry two times. I'm like, that's wild, you know, like truly. And then we, I think, had to learn emotionality because it's really important. And so we've been doing our best. And then I think this like new generation that's coming in is like they're teaching us so much about emotionality. And I it's it's really beautiful to watch. And I also am like feeling for my friends who are young mothers because I'm like, that's intense. Like you got a four-year-old coming at you with big feelings. It's like, that I can you this the the instinct is to like shut it down. But like that's that's not correct. We do need to express these things in a healthy way and learn what our relationship is to it and how to like navigate it. And even I would argue like make the most of it because emotionality is a gift. It's like it it is a language and it is a huge important critical aspect of of the human experience for sure.
Sasha Pearl: yeah. I mean and I my mom passed away when I was twenty three and therapy wasn't cool. I can tell you
Shanan Kelley: Hmm. Right.
Sasha Pearl: that. Never talked about emotions. So I just went deep into alcohol and men and let me tell you, that was a
Shanan Kelley: How'd that go? Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: And was like, the first three sessions, all I did was cry.
Shanan Kelley: Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: I didn't feel like I had license or a space to go do that because it was like,
Shanan Kelley: Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: that's gonna be too much to deal with, babes. Like that's gonna be too much
Shanan Kelley: Yeah, yeah.
Sasha Pearl: to deal with, even though you just lost your mom and you know lost your relationship, like everything was like felt crumbling, right? And to like finally have a space where I'm like, I feel safe enough to like talk. And then to find out, you're an empath. And I was like, what? So I had no idea. I had no idea.
Shanan Kelley: Mm. Yeah. I know. Yeah. I've had so many similar things like that too, where like I I had a like a skin cancer scare many years ago. And after it was done, I was talking about it with a friend and she pretty much interrupted and was But you're okay, right? So don't worry. And I was like, that was weird, you know? And then I it happened with the second person. And then it happened with the third person. I was like, they like can't handle this with me. I need to just talk about this thing, and they like cannot handle it. after Casey passed away, I remember it was like a month or something and I said something like I'm sad and the person was like, Why are you sad? And I was like, Are you okay? Like, why are we
Sasha Pearl: We what?
Shanan Kelley: not understand like it we're why wanna put it in a box and we want to put it over here and we don't want to be uncomfortable. And I think it's really interesting because at the same time that people are saying that, they're also saying, I want to be more vulnerable and I want to be more visible and I want to be more connected and I want to be connected myself and I want to have these really meaningful relationships with other people and like that is going to require you to learn some new skills.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm. Well,
Shanan Kelley: You know.
Sasha Pearl: I think it requires you to ask you yourself deeper questions and
Shanan Kelley: Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: do more because the more that again, the more that you can really understand how you are running and like understanding what your feelings are, you're gonna feel more comfortable showing up in those conversations and holding space for other people. And
Shanan Kelley: Absolutely.
Sasha Pearl: I think what Julie Harrelson had that TEDx talk about grief,
Shanan Kelley: Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: right? And she's like, if you can't experience grief, then you can't hold joy even. Like the capacity if you can hold deep grief, you can hold even more joy. And I thought that was such a very like that's what I was.
Shanan Kelley: Mm-hmm. I know it. I yeah, I did love that talk because she also, you know, she used the slinky, right? And she was kind of like, you can do a little and then you can back off and you can go into this and you can do a little and like that is I think that like you're almost like titrating it a little bit because you know, like I remember saying someone asked me because they were like, Well, how do you tend to your grief? And I'm like, You tend to your grief the way you tend to your favorite garden. Like it it it's a process and a series of any number of practices that are gonna work for you for that round. You know, and I do think like like no one's getting out of it without some grief. Like that's the agreement for being a human. and you know, we've all seen what it looks like when people deny their grief. Like two years goes by and now they're in the hospital with appendicitis or whatever. You know what I mean? Like you're like, okay, well, your body is giving you clues all the time and can we listen to those and then go even a step further and take action. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: It it's it's like when it's sh it's physically showing up in the body as like you're talking about something and you're literally creating hives in your body. You're like, Why are you still in this relationship again? Are you okay? You do realize like your your physical body is unsafe while you speak
Shanan Kelley: Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: about this relationship that quote unquote is your like the relationship, you know what I mean? Or
Shanan Kelley: Right. Yeah, it does. It does yeah. It's like this great oversimplification of what it means to be a human. Like, okay, you do this and you have a relationship and you do this and you have a job and you blah blah blah. And it's like, okay, so I think what a lot of us are looking at is like these stories that we've been told about, like how you do life, are proving to just not they're just insufficient. And so
Sasha Pearl: Yeah.
Shanan Kelley: then we're like, okay, so what is it really like, you know? And then we find each other and we do that thing.
Sasha Pearl: Why do we let it why do we let it get so far though to where it has to like physically manifest in our bodies? Like that that that's literally years of like not owning the feeling, right? Or like that's
Shanan Kelley: Yeah, capitalism and patriarchy, Sasha. It all comes down to capitalism and patriarchy. It does us no good. Yeah. I know.
Sasha Pearl: It's crazy. Anyways, the more though that I learn about human design, the more I learn about just the nervous system and everything, I'm like, okay,
Shanan Kelley: Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: the body literally is is telling you so much all of the time and it's so resilient and so intuitive. It's like can we can we can we build a better relationship with it?
Shanan Kelley: Yeah, my teacher Taylor Page, she says, like your body's your f like first and most reliable divining tool. You know, so like we have cards and we have pendulums and we have freaking astrology and we have all these different, you know, tool people read tea leaves or whatever they're doing. But like actually just your body is gonna give you so much information if you can be in a practice of stopping and listening and like being able to determine. Like I had a really interesting experience the other a couple weeks ago where I got a very, very, very Very clear, intuitive download. And in my being this of how I was being in that moment, I was like, okay, you're being strange. Like, why are you thinking about this? And I also projected onto it, like, it means this, this, and this. And then in retrospect, after this whole thing happened, I was like, my body was picking up on the fact that something was off. And all I needed to do was go, hey, something's off here. Like, what can I do to just maybe be responsible? for what's going on here, you know. Big lessons, yeah.
Sasha Pearl: yeah, absolutely. It's so intuitive. so we're gonna start wrapping up here. This is my last and final question. So I ask all of my guests this. So if someone were to really know you, what would they need to know about you?
Shanan Kelley: gosh, that is a powerful question. I mean, you know, one thing I've always said is like it's a good thing I'm funny because I'm actually like the most boring person in the world. Like all I want to do is like stay home and read. And I think that it actually is a real thing because like when I think about being in relationship, of course I want to be with my people and I want to be with them all the time. But the reality is I need so much time and spaciousness to keep myself mentally, emotionally and physically well, that it would be so helpful if my people can understand that about me. And and they do. And like I know how to speak about it now. But like that I think is like a really big deal. Like I sometimes need help taking care of myself in that way. I need the person to understand like, she's just doing her sham thing and she'll come out she'll come out of the house when she's ready. You know, I mean let's not let it get too far. But like, you know Yeah, I think like if my people who are really close to me can understand that like it has absolutely nothing to do with them. I just have to be in my process, you know, that's like very helpful for me.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, I think we're really, really similar in that in that sense. I just have to trust that if you are my people, you understand that I'm not gonna be available twenty four seven. It's just I cannot sustain that.
Shanan Kelley: Yeah, yeah. I don't have the stamina. Yeah. And I I just can't I just can't keep going. It i if I push myself beyond that point, like my joy goes away. And that's just what's the point of that? What's the point of that?
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, and it's like Yeah, and then when you show up, I mean, and when we show up, it's like we're showing up fully. You're not going you're not getting one percent of us, but it's because we get to take time to rest and like,
Shanan Kelley: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. No, that's right. Mm-hmm.
Sasha Pearl: you know, generate our own like joy and well being, which is wonderful.
Shanan Kelley: Mm, mhm.
Sasha Pearl: So Shannon, how can the wonderful world contact you, get in touch with you, work with you?
Shanan Kelley: thank you. This is so good. So I mean, probably the easiest way is just to go to my website, Shannon Kelly.com, and you can send me a note. That way we can connect. I do work with people in just a variety of different ways. So that's probably the easiest. And I am like sometimes on Instagram, you know. I'm like I have like kind of a contentious relationship to it. I'm like, do I like this? I'm not sure. I think so, maybe not. I don't know. But I am also on Shannon on on Instagram and it's Shannon Kelly as well.
Sasha Pearl: Anytime I get a comment from Shannon Kelly, I'm like, god, I'm I'm obsessed. I've done well. I've done well here.
Shanan Kelley: I you know what? That's so it's I'm like if we can't be generous by giving our friends likes and comments on them. I'm literally like you could be like, I like popcorn on that post. It's like it helps your friend, who cares? You know, so yeah, you can always
Sasha Pearl: Yes. Yes, exactly.
Shanan Kelley: count on me for a comment. I I just love speaking with you.
Sasha Pearl: Get to know it, Tanner. Well thank you so much.
Shanan Kelley: This is so nice. Thanks for having me. Yeah.
