In this episode of Have You Met You?, I sit down with Zoe Graman, psychic medium, energy healer, and intuitive guide known as “the doula of the true self.” Zoe teaches people how to trust their intuition, clear energy that was never theirs, and build a business rooted in truth instead of templates.
We talk about energetic sovereignty, neutrality, fear, visibility, people-pleasing, and why your attention might be the most powerful tool you own.
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Full Episode Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated, so a few words may be a little off.
Zoe: if you're feeling an extreme sense of an emotion, like extremely angry or extremely like grievy and sad, and you don't necessarily have a reason in your own life that you can identify for why you feel that way or like really overly irritated, just sort of pause and notice that that's happening. And then the first thing Or one of the main things to understand, and this changed my life when I found this out, is that if it doesn't feel good to you, it's not your energy.
Sasha Pearl: Have you ever wondered why some emotions feel heavy and it's not even clear why? Well, today on the podcast, I have Zoe Grayman. She is a psychic medium and energy healer, and we discuss all things energetic sovereignty. She is a projector, so we will be sharing some unique insights and guidance for you to really own your own energetic space. She calls herself the doula of the true self. But before we hop into the episode, I wanted to let you all know I am hosting, co-hosting a live 90-minute workshop with cosmic identity astrologer Lexi Chang called Self-Expressed. we're gonna be going over your unique seven placements to creating magnetic content. We just want you to be you in the world, fully expressed. So we are partnering to bring you all of the energetic placements that are you. So you can be your most visible, your most authentic, and your most clear self in the world. We are going to have so much fun. We are currently doing early bird pricing until the 16th, and then it goes up to $47 after that. We're gonna have time for a QA live with Lexi and I. So if you have any questions about your unique chart, We can answer them in there. But this is going to be a framework truly based on your unique energetics. It's gonna be a blast, and we cannot wait to have you. So with further ado, let's get into this episode. I'm your host, Sasha Pearl, the Energy Architect, and I guide soul led women in building authentic six-figure businesses by aligning their identity. their brand and their content. So let's get into it. we have Zoe Grayman on the podcast today. And we are so excited. We actually have known each other for eight years, but like through the interwebs and the Instagram. we'll talk about that a little bit more in a moment. But Zoe, I would love to hear more about who you are and what you do in the world.
Zoe: Yes. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I feel like who I am is a continually evolving answer in a way, right? So, like I don't know, it's not one static thing, but in terms of the work I do in the world and the stuff that I'm sort of centered around, I'm a psychic intuitive, I'm a clairvoyant, I do energy healing work and I teach people how to turn on and work with their intuition. So
Sasha Pearl: Yeah.
Zoe: It's kind of like that's how I live my life is through understanding the world through energy and intuition and how to kind of create what I want in my life through that lens. And then I teach classes and work with people one-on-one in that sort of work, essentially just to help make people's lives better foundationally. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: Which we all need. Zoe calls herself the doula of wait, doula of of the true okay, I was like, wait, am I saying that wrong? Yeah, doula of the true self with that which is like I think so epic. You wanna tell us more about that?
Zoe: Of the true self. So yeah, so I didn't I didn't necessarily like bestow that upon myself, but I which would have been fine if I had. But I but I was having a conversation with a new friend that I had just met. And she was like, So tell me about what you do. And I was basically describing the work that I do. And she was like, so you're like a doula of the true self. And I was like, Yes, like I am. Like
Sasha Pearl: I know.
Zoe: You know, that's maybe not the like name that you put on like a r r resume or a business card that like t necessarily makes sense to people, but literally the again, the energy work that I do with people is about excavating all the shit that's in the way of someone being their true selves. So it's there is a doula a birthing of the true self in that process.
Sasha Pearl: absolutely. And I think it's like the archetype that you get to just hold in the work that you do. I think it's so fun to make up names for ourselves and then people are like, I don't know what that means. I'm like, but that's the point. You get to stay and get curious about what that means and then learn from me and you'll understand why I call myself the Energy Architect or why you call yourself the doula of the truth of true self, right?
Zoe: And that's also part of the perk of like working for oneself in the more like intuitive, non-traditional, non-corporate space is like I can call myself whatever the fuck I want. I used to get really tripped up on like, am I a coach or am I a healer? Am I a like what do I call myself? Like that really mattered so much. Like what do I put in my Instagram bio? And the my grip has loosened on that considerably over the years, where it's like, yeah, there's a handful of things to describe what I do, but you'll know it when you experience it.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. One hundred percent I love it. But honestly, it's true. People will like not update their bio or do anything on Instagram because they're like, I don't have the right bio. I don't know what I'm calling myself. I don't know what's up about this. And it's like actually the best thing you can do is just take any sort of action, please. For the love of God. have you heard of holisticism?
Zoe: Yes. Don't overthink it. Yes, that sounds familiar.
Sasha Pearl: Okay, it's Michelle Gunabatcher last name, Pelazani or something. And she always calls herself head the head witch of holisticism. And I was like, see, that's fun. Like it just adds like a playful playfulness to the business. So Zoe is a one four projector with emotional authority. I would love to hear more about how when you found out that you were a projector, how that shifted things for you.
Zoe: Totally. Agreed. Yeah, well I'll say like the first time that I sort of input my information into like Jovian archive or whatever years ago, and then I looked up like what is a projector and it was talking about like waiting for the invitation, I was like, ugh, ugh, like that. That's so lame. Why I have to wait around for somebody else? You know, I was like, so annoying, you know? And then once I
Sasha Pearl: True conditioned projector.
Zoe: it opened up my exploration a bit more, had a few readings, really came to understand it in a different way. I really experience understanding myself as a projector as like such a huge permission slip. Like real honestly to like chill the fuck out. Mostly like to not and listen, it's a continual deconditioning and forgetting and remembering process eternally. But overall the permission slip to drop like the the grind and the hustle and making it all about what I'm producing and how trying to keep up with the Joneses of the internet or people in my life and be like, no, space, like spaciousness, rest. That's what cultivates my genius. And all I have to do is then allow myself to be seen in that. And that does all the hard work for me, basically. And I certainly really identify with the characteristics of the projector of being like the seer, you know, like I mean, so much of my work is literally about clairvoyantly seeing things, but like seeing things very clearly in terms of systems and patterns and other people and what's stuck. So
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: the longer I've understood it, the more I'm like, Yeah, it feels good. I'm I'm into it.
Sasha Pearl: I love it. Cause you also were like, I always talk about like creating the invitation and maybe that's kind of like a swerve. it's 111. Yay. maybe that's a little swerve from like the dogmatic like believers of human design, which I literally can't get on board with anyways. But creating the invitation, I really love you're like, you have to just experience me to understand what I do. And it's like that couldn't be like so true, so true. You're like, I can really see you and let me see you so I can heal you. Well and you're really just healing yourself, right? By being open to receiving.
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, helping someone see themselves more clearly, really, in essence too. And I'm I'm a an energy projector, I think is what it's called. It's like I have a my I have a defined heart. So because I have a motor center, like it's also been continues to be challenging for me to recognize when I'm just like pushing myself to do the thing because I can and I have the capacity and the energy to, versus like
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Like, okay, I'm pushing myself to do it, but is there actually anything happening in like am I just sitting at the computer staring at the document, wheeling it into existence, or is there actual like energy and flow and something being created? So that's been a huge unlock for me in terms of my creativity and entrepreneurship is like really giving myself permission to just be like, I'm not feeling it today. I'm not gonna do it today. And then trusting that the time will arise when it's aligned or the energy is there, the excitement, or the inspiration. And literally without fail, every single time I give myself that space, it comes through. Might be at like the 11th hour, but it still comes through and it happens so much more quickly and with so much more ease.
Sasha Pearl: my god, yeah, absolutely. I'm glad that you brought that up, the energetic projector. Cause I'm a non-energy projector. I'm just tired all the time. Actually, that's not true. But I'm like, why? I couldn't even imagine what I would be like with a defined ego, like getting shit done for sure. It really is. So I so Zoe and I actually met in Portland eight years ago. She came. This is like at the very beginning of when I learned about human design. And I can't remember her name. Do you remember the name?
Zoe: Okay. Yeah, it's a it's a blessing and a curse. It's one of the yeah. I think it w we were saying maybe it's Emily Vino's house. Yes.
Sasha Pearl: Yes, Emily Emily. I don't even know if she still does human design or not, but she's the one. I don't even know how I connect with her, probably at like a coffee shop or something. Anyways, I was like, you can host a human design workshop at my at my home. And it's like just like a little apartment, but she ended up coming over, inviting a bunch of people. And Zoe was one of these people. And I was like, my god, yes, another projector. And then you had just stopped drinking. You were clearing your vessel for this like intuitive, intuitive school that you
Zoe: Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: we're in and practicing, like developing your intuition. And then I never saw you again. And we were just following each other on Instagram. And so I just like love how our worlds have collided once again to have this conversation. So the reason I bring all of that up is A, serendipity, but B, let's talk about your journey from the corporate world into your intuitive world and your intuitive development.
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean you and I met at a really potent like inception moment in my journey where I was like thick into my Saturn return and I was like, like life is not as I thought it was and there's wow, I might be a different person than I thought I was. And anyway, so like I I was dipping my toes into things like astrology and tarot and human design and I was just like so fascinated by spirituality and just like unlocking all these doors.
Sasha Pearl: Wait, was that your first time first time being interested in these in like anything energetic?
Zoe: I don't think that moment that we that we met was like I was already kinda in it. Like I would wake up and like listen to podcasts about it before work and s when I still have my job.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. okay. 'Cause I was into like astrology and energetics like from like baby child age.
Zoe: Okay, yeah, no, this was this was I was a late onset, then drink the Kool-Aid real quickly.
Sasha Pearl: Wow. I love that though. Okay, cool. I had no idea. That's you had just entered this like other realm. Okay.
Zoe: So to I guess in a way then to start the story a little bit further back than maybe I normally would is that I I grew up in a household that was very in to me it's like standard in terms of like academic, like you go to school, you get good grades, you go to a good college, you get a good job. And it's like you just try to be the best at all of those things along the way. And then once you tick all those boxes and then you have the like accomplished full time job with the salary and the benefits, you've made you've solved life. Life is figured out
Sasha Pearl: Same exact story.
Zoe: And you're golden, right?
Sasha Pearl: Same exact story. Mm-hmm.
Zoe: So I was really excellent at following all of those steps and all of those rules. I was a sort of perfectionist child. I followed all the rules. I had straight A's. I, you know, and that tumbled into you know, terror like challenging territory in terms of like developing eating disorders and depression. And it was like there was ways that that wore on me earlier in life. but basically around my Saturn return, I reached a point where I was like, I have checked all of these boxes. I am in this like promise, what is supposed to be this promise land of now you're an adult and you're you're great, and I'm a miserable. So like there this must not be it. Like there must be something else here. And that was kind of where the Saturn Return found me. what I understand now in hindsight that I had no awareness of at the time was that I was a really sensitive, intuitive kid. I just picked up on people's feelings and their thoughts and was just really sensitive to energy and other people's emotions and like could walk into a room and feel things happening. And I just thought that that's how everybody was. Like I didn't have any understanding if that was some certain characteristic or something like that. So my way of kind of getting through things in the world because I could feel what everybody else was feeling was I'm gonna try to just be as perfect as possible to try to assuage everybody else's fear or anger or preferences or like just to make everybody else happy because that's the only way I know how to control what's happening around me that I can't handle. I didn't have any understanding of it. So kind of the things I've already mentioned, there was a lot of detrimental facets to that. but then coming into my Saturn return, I was working as a basically a human resources manager at a technology startup company. And so it was like the big girl job, you know, I was working in downtown Portland. It was one of those places where it had like all the perks, you know, like happy hours and you could bring your dog to work and like you could work remotely and all of that stuff. I was like, this is everybody's dream, right? And I would have panic attacks. I remember like two very specific occasions where I had like full on panic attacks that I'd never had before or since going into the office for work.
Sasha Pearl: You're like we're living Yeah.
Zoe: Cause there was just such a sense of like this is not right, and it was killing my soul. so during that time, the dawning of the Saturn return, my partner at the time, who we were living together, he came home one day and he was like, Did you know there's a psychic school in Portland? And like some little intuitive antenna went up, and I was like, psychic school, like. I didn't know you could go to school for that. I'd never even considered anything like that. And I was yeah.
Sasha Pearl: Wait, I have a question though. Did he know that you had intuitive abilities and psychic abilities before you knew? Is this like a conversation like why would he just pr preemptively just be like, hey, there's a psychic school?
Zoe: I mean, I think that was the universe working through him to be like, yo, we gotta get her in here. I we never had a conversation explicitly where he was like, you might be psychic. I think he more was like, This is cool. Did you know this is a thing that exists? And he knew that I was getting into like astrology and tarot and kind of like I was describing. I was also, I mean, yeah. I was also really into meditation at the time, like just like seated following the breath. I would wake up at like four a.m. and do this before work. I was a crazy person.
Sasha Pearl: Interests me. Okay, that makes more sense. I'm like, where did this come from? She says, Define. You got this.
Zoe: So I I exactly exactly. So I went on the school's website and their introductory class was called psychic meditation. And so I was like, okay, like I like meditation. Let's make it psychic. I don't know what that means, but sure, fuck it. So I signed up and I went to that class. It was like a five week, you know, five one class a week for five weeks. I went after work and it was interesting and the tools were helpful. And then as part of that class, you could get a free reading from the students of their year-long clairvoyant training program. And that's the program where they teach people how to read energy psychically, like give a reading. So I was like, well, it's free. Like I'll go in and sure, why not? So I went in and I sat down and I will never forget what it was like. There was three women sitting in front of me. There's sort of one main reader and then two side readers. I've never met these women before in my life. And they proceeded to give me this reading where I felt so seen. It was like they were seeing and describing exactly the experience that I was in in ways that I could not even think to describe. They were seeing like to the depths of things. And it was such a again, such a potent time in my life because it was my Saturn return and all kinds of stuff is like dying and being reborn. So it was like a very like prominent moment to receive a reading like that. And so I left that reading being like, I don't know what the fuck they are teaching people here, but I know without a shadow of a doubt that I need to find out. Like there's something in this to me that resonates as true. This is just true and important. So I signed up that day, blindly entering into this year-long intuitive or clairvoyant training program where you learn to read energy. So I think somewhere in that year is when you and I met. It was like a month into that program. I was randomly laid off from my job. There was like a company restructuring, the universe intervening as we gotta get this bitch out of here because she's not gonna leave on her own. She's too afraid. We gotta just hit the eject button. so I was laid off from that job. I was in this training. I was like, I'm not gonna work for anybody else again. I think I'm gonna start my own business. I enrolled in a coaching year long coaching certification program. I like dove headfirst into creating this new life for myself. And now, eight years later, here we are.
Sasha Pearl: That's incredible. So I guess I love how you're like, they ejected me out of the company that I wasn't brave enough to go on my own. You must have been brave enough, though, to take the risk and believe in yourself, right? To then go start your own business. So what was it like? Like, were you like off the bat offering readings for your business? Or like how did you make money in the in between those two? Like the development and then like starting your own business?
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah. So Yeah. So so the one thing I'll say for before that is just like I think about this sometimes where I'm like, thank God I was so naive. Because like had I known, had I known what this was gonna take, and if someone had laid it all out for me and explained to me exactly what was, I don't know I would have said yes. So it's like, thank God I had no fucking clue and just was like, yeah, this and just kept with it. So there's that. so
Sasha Pearl: my god, yeah. I same. I'm so glad you just said that.
Zoe: I I I was in this training, I lost this job. As soon as I lost the job, I got this intuitive download that was like, You need to move out of your apartment that you share with your partner. And I was like, not ready for that yet. And so I put it off for a few months, but then eventually I moved out of that apartment. I moved into my parents' house because they live like half an hour outside of Portland. I tra so I was at that time, yeah, in the I ended up taking two year long training programs at this school at the same time because I'm Crazy person. So I did a healer training and a clairvoyant training. So I was really deep in that. I was doing some like business courses, like which we can get into later, but like the coachy coach sort of like business giving me all of their answers, not my answers, sort of thing. But I needed to start somewhere. So I was doing a lot of that. So I was I was just like really filling my time. And then I was also driving for a Lyft in Uber for like maybe nine months. I would wake up at like three in the morning to go pick people up at the airport. I
Sasha Pearl: Right. Mm.
Zoe: I I look back and I'm like, why did I torture myself like that? But I made it work. I made it work. And then and then like at the end of that year, basically right before I graduated those trainings, I ended the real like it was a three-year relationship with that person. I ended that relationship. And then fast forward four months or whatever, we're like in a global pandemic. And then somewhere in there, I did the year-long coach coaching certification program. It was like all of the bones were kind of being set in place.
Sasha Pearl: Fine.
Zoe: where I didn't exactly know what it was going to look like. I knew I wanted to work one-on-one with people in a coaching-esque capacity. So I was just kind of following those breadcrumbs basically. And then I offered my first reading in May, like outside of the practicing that I was doing in the training, in May of 2020. So deep in shelter and place time, I was riding my bike near my parents' house and just got this again, like intuitive download that's like. Offer some siding scale readings. And that just actually kick started my entire business. I was doing like twenty two dollar readings and it just like all all these people showed up out of nowhere. It was amazing. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. And sometimes you have to like start like really low to get like just build a your confidence, the the momentum, and then people will like refer, et cetera, et cetera. So that's really that's really beautiful. I also left my corporate like our stories are so similar. I actually don't think I knew that about you. Because I left like a year before the pandemic. And I'm like, I didn't get any of that PPP money or like any of those like crazy unemployment benefits that were happening during that time.
Zoe: Mm. Okay.
Sasha Pearl: But I feel like with Lyft and Uber at that specific time, there that's when they was like just popping off and they're doing all these like crazy rewards and the whatnot, right?
Zoe: Yeah. I mean I I have no idea what it's like now. but there was definitely quite a bit of that at the time. And then it s obviously ended abruptly in in March of twenty twenty. It that was I got some stories from that, but that's a tale for another time.
Sasha Pearl: So I'd love to hear more about this like new identity shift or this new way of being that you're in right now. You said that you are moving your theme or mantra for 2026 is potency over palatability. And I think that's like so powerful, especially in the age of Aquarius and like the world that we're living in now. So what does that mean to you and what are some of the practices that you're actively putting on every day to really embody potency over palatability?
Zoe: Yeah. So I guess what I would say is like at the core of palatability, and this is, you know, from my standpoint in the work that I do, at the core of being palatable lies all of this energetic programming and pictures that we've inherited, that this is how we we have to be a certain way in order to be loved, accepted, taken seriously, seen, fill in the blank. So all of that kind of energetic shit piled on top of us, clouds are potency. Or our ability to just kind of connect with what's true for ourselves in any given moment, with whatever that is, creative expression or in communication and conversation or how we're dressing and how we're appearing or whatever. It runs the gamut in terms of how we live our lives. so kind of what I was describing in terms of like being a recovering perfectionist and living my whole life up until my late 20s of just trying to be perfect all the time. there wasn't a lot of potency in that. Right, is a lot of rule following and trying to f identify what the boxes are so that I can fit inside them, so that I can win the game, basically. And
Sasha Pearl: talk about how what describe potency in your terms. How are you describing potency?
Zoe: Yeah, so I would say it's really in essence like it fully expressed as one's true self in all those ways that I just listed, like communication, appearance, taking up space, sharing yourself, saying what you mean, like speaking about what you see. So so much of my my business journey, like for the first few years, was a lot of like
Sasha Pearl: Say what I mean? Weird.
Zoe: showing up and saying the thing that like I think is the right thing to say. It it's not like I'm saying it was all bullshit, because it wasn't, but it was still under the guise of like, I've got to say it correctly, or I've got to say it in a way where somebody like takes it seriously or where it doesn't offend anyone or where it's like correct in some way. And all of those guardrails were frankly it's like, and I see this with my entrepreneur clients all the time. It's like The more we allow those kinds of guardrails to lead the way we're expressing, the more we're tamping down the the full magnetism of our own energy. So that kind of magnetism, that potency is what I'm talking about in terms of the true self. And the energy work that it I sort of like live and breathe at this point is about clearing out all the energy that's in the way of that potency, of like living potently.
Sasha Pearl: I love that. Yeah, because you you talk about teaching energetic sovereignty. So tell me more about that.
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah. So basically being a human being in the world, we handle a lot of energy. Like I I think whether or not you're someone who identifies as intuitive or has that language, like we can all agree with that. Like the world is a lot. And so we deal with a lot, like just existing. Like just getting out of bed in the morning is like, fuck, there's like just a lot to think about and feel. So when we move through the world.
Sasha Pearl: Mm. Yeah I
Zoe: At the effect of all of this energy. And the majority of what we handle happens unconsciously, meaning we're not consciously aware of it. It's happening in the background, it's affecting us in the background. When we move through life handling all of that stuff, that impacts how we see ourselves, how we live our lives, the choices we make, where we like how connected we are to our intuition and our own inner compass. And so it can distort. basically the life our true selves and like the life that we would live from that place. So energetic sovereignty is in essence like a way of practicing moving all of the energy out of one's space, out of your space, that isn't yours and that doesn't belong to you and creating a sense of separation between this is my bubble of my energy and this is everything else. Because when you're in your own energy and your system is running on your own life force energy, that's like the optimal fuel for your body for your life. So when you're running on your own energy, you're gonna feel clearer, more connected to yourself, less weighed down emotionally or physically, or just like with dense energy. It just feels a lot better. Like intuitive insight becomes more available to you. What the next choice that is correct for you is becomes obvious. Aligned opportunities and relationships come into your life because you're you're sort of creating an orbit or a gravitational pull of your truth that's pulling those things in. And so moving out everything that isn't you helps strengthen the gravitational pull of that. And when we can exist in the world, like obviously we're also a part of everything, like that's just how it is. But if we can also relate to the world with With a sense of energetic separation, fra like an energetic boundary, we could say, it allows us to not take on all of the shit that the world is throwing our way all the time. I mean, like just one, you know, scrolling sesh on Instagram for seven minutes. And it's like you could be handling energy that affects you for days afterwards. So having the tools to be able to clear out what isn't you or what you're not in agreement with. handling that isn't working for you and replace it with what is you is the single greatest thing that has contributed to the transformation I've experienced in my life to where I am now. It's like it's allowed everything to transform to be in alignment with who I actually came here to be.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. So well, two things. So I feel like I used to have a roommate who would, or maybe it was like an ex-boyfriend or something, where they'd watch the news the first thing in the morning and then they'd be like upset the rest of the day. And I'm like, why are you doing that to yourself? Like I actually get like I cannot watch the news. I will get snippets here and there, but I'm not gonna like make time for that because of the energetic frequency, a low energetic frequency, it brings me. It's like there's nothing I can do as a solo person. So if I hold on to that, what is that? that what all that's doing is ruining my magnetism and my amplification and my potency in the world. It's like it's not gonna, it's not, that's not this that's not for me. Some people it's probably amazing for maybe. I don't know. Actually probably not. But I was like, I just wanna like that is so true though. It's like and you get to have choice in like what you are consciously creating awareness around, right? It's like wherever your energy goes, your focus or wherever your focus goes, energy flows or whatever that saying is I'm like it's so true. It's like I
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: want to choose to look at life in a positive way where news always seems to trend more negatively. Right. And it's like obviously you need to be up to date and like aware of things. And also it's like you c there I just micro moments. Micro moments of it.
Zoe: Yeah, I think what a lot of people don't realize is just how powerful their attention is. Like really your attention is maybe the greatest superpower that you have. And so when we're you utilizing it unconsciously and sending it to things that don't serve us or are depleting us or are again pr creating a sense of what life is like. according to that energy rather than according to how we feel life is like or what we want life to feel like, it can really distort our experience. So learning to harness your attention. And and place it intentionally, the places where you want it to go, understanding that where attention goes, energy flows, what you put your attention on will grow. So, in the same way that if we put our attention on negative, really, really negative things, that makes our entire reality feel negative. Versus we can understand that there are negative things happening, but if we're attending to, yeah, there's all this shit going on in the world, but also like, God, the sun is shining and like the birds, and there's so much love in my life. And that's putting your attention on that is not an avoidance of the other things that are happening. It's not a bearing.
Sasha Pearl: We can
Zoe: Your head in the sand, it's just making the volume of that louder. Because isn't that the world you'd rather be living in? And it's actually also happening at the same time.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm. I really love that of making like it all exists. We're all interconnected. And I love that it's like, well, we we get to choose what volume we we have it on. Right. And so if, you know, getting sun, going for a walk, those things like taking care of your body are the things that make you feel really good, which they should be. turn that all the way up and then, you know, be informed and then turn it down. Be informed and turn it down, right? And it's just like the frequency in which we turn it up or turn it down is something that, you know, is gonna be decided by your soul.
Zoe: Yeah. That's that's that's that like sovereignty and seniority piece is determining how much of my energy and attention do I want going to this thing. And when I'm complete with it going there, I'm gonna then pull it off of that and put it somewhere else.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, and I love that. Yeah, the intentionality. I feel like sometimes I and I have been a victim of this too. It's like, well, life is just happening to me, you know, in like my early 20s and the corporate job where everyone's like, you have to think like this, blah, blah, blah. And you're accessing like 1% of your giftings. Where it's like, no, no, we get to be intentional about the life that we choose and we get to create and curate the environments in which we find successful or like we're in our signature states of self. So we can be magnetic and highly potent and all of the juicy, beautiful things. So as someone who maybe just getting into energetic sovereignty or is this the first time hearing about it, what are some things where they can be like, I've been operating from like I I see like splotchy, like a splotchy energetic field or whatever. Like I don't know, like blocked energetic field. Like what are some things that they could witness in the in themselves and how would they be operating? Like what what places are they operating from versus when they're in energetic sovereignty, what places would they be operating from from there?
Zoe: Yeah, I guess I would say maybe a first step is starting with awareness, which in many cases is like is always the first step. But just noticing, like out in your life, if you're feeling an extreme sense of an emotion, like extremely angry or extremely like grievy and sad, and you don't necessarily have a reason in your own life that you can identify for why you feel that way or like really overly irritated, just sort of pause and notice that that's happening. And then the first thing Or one of the main things to understand, and this changed my life when I found this out, is that if it doesn't feel good to you, it's not your energy.
Sasha Pearl: Say that one more time.
Zoe: If it doesn't feel good to you, it's not your energy. So Yeah. And write it down and put it on your wall and like Yeah. No, it totally changed my life. So
Sasha Pearl: Okay, now break that down. I'm like, that's good.
Zoe: just to give a quick example, let's say you're going out to dinner with a friend who's like having a really hard time in life. And so you're having this dinner and they're like, this and that. And like my boyfriend broke up with me, or like someone died, and like I'm just really depressed. And like I can't my jaw, I can't find work. And well, they're just like unloading. And then at the end of the meal, they're like, thank you for listening. Like, I feel so much better. Thank you for listening. And then you leave and you're like, like, now I feel like shit though. That's a perfect example of where there was an energetic exchange where you someone, not intentionally, mostly it's not intentionally, dumped a bunch of their energy in your space, and now you're at the effect of their energy. So The first thing is recognizing that when you're in a space like that, you're handling energy that isn't your own. So that's step number one. The second thing is to implement some kind of energetic hygiene tool to clear that energy out. So there's a number of these tools that I teach in the energy essentials class that maybe we'll talk about later, but just to start, like you can really come up with any sort of simple visualization that works for you. So if you notice yourself stimulated in a way like that, you can close your eyes. Practice bringing your attention like back to yourself out of the past, out of the future, out of all of the the to-do lists and the shit that your mind is spinning around on. And just bring it back to yourself. And then you can create some kind of image of like it could be a garbage dumpster, it could be a garbage can, it could just be like a bubble, some kind of receptacle. And then imagine sending all of the energy, either if you know where it comes from, like from that interaction or from that person, or if you don't know the source of it, just like Feeling really heavy, I'm gonna just send all of the heaviness into this receptacle. And then imagine moving that receptacle somewhere far away, like over an ocean and blowing it up and exploding it. It sounds like silly and so simple, and like you're just using your imagination, but like that is what using your intuition is. It's like using that sensing part of yourself. That is energy work. So taking a moment, like sometimes I recommend. It's maybe a little more accessible to people, is like when you're in the shower, imagining when the water is pouring down that it's washing off any energy, any energy that you handle throughout the day that isn't your own. And then after you clear energy that isn't you, you always want to replenish with yourself, with your own energy. So it's like you're taking out what's been taking up the space. There's a vacancy. You want to fill that back in with you. So the symbol that I teach in energy essentials and is just a I think a really great one to work with is. Imagining a giant golden sun above your head. And that golden sun is filled with your life force energy. So that is again the fuel that your system runs best on. That's gonna feel like the true you, you're connected. Like, you know, those moments in life where you're just like, Yeah, like I feel good, I feel connected, I feel like in the click. That's what your life force energy is. So you can imagine that gold sun just pouring down into your space, like.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. Yeah.
Zoe: We feel the warmth of it. Sometimes you can imagine like like cracking an egg of gold sun into your filling your space in. But just doing that, like taking five minutes to do that at the end of the day, or like maybe at a really charged meeting on Zoom at work or something, like take a beat and do that and just notice how it shifts your space. So that's a way of practicing energetic sovereignty, is in essence having your attention on your space, recognizing that it's your domain.
Sasha Pearl: I love that.
Zoe: And therefore, if something's not working for you, you can move it out and replace it with what is you. And the more and more that you do that, the better and better you will feel. And also the more it will kind of become second nature as like you can just kind of do it with your eyes open while you're washing the dishes or whatever.
Sasha Pearl: For me, especially and for you, we both have open sacral. So we're like literally living on the energy, like the energetic force, life force, vitality of other people. And so I actually do find it really hard to have moments of awareness to where, like, like I'm being activated or I'm feeling heavy, or I feel like I'm in like I'm not emotional too. So I'm like, I'm in a mood. Like what what's like I don't think this is actually like I can feel when it's not mine and when it's someone else's. And then It the the beat though is so hard in community. I feel like so my question is just like what how can I take a beat when I'm literally in the thick of the socializing or in the you know what I mean? Where it's like they're telling you and you're like, put up the the golden egg, the golden egg or like what is your advice for someone who like I am just deeply relational and social and all the things.
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: but sometimes I feel I'm like, I now I feel very exhausted, I'm out for two days.
Zoe: Yeah. So I would say in a situation like that, maybe the first and best and most effective thing just to start with is just notice if your attention and your energy has jumped out of your body and gone into the other person's space. So this is a thing where like it might be subtle and it might take a little getting used to to n figure out what exactly that means. but
Sasha Pearl: Oof east.
Zoe: Very often what happens when we when we get overwhelmed or we're like, I'm I'm overstimulated is because we're we're out of our own space in other people's. And then we're in a way we're more susceptible to handling other people's energy. So especially if you're having a conversation with someone where you're like, I'm fucking irritated or like or I'm just overwhelmed or it's like intense. Imagine taking pulling your attention off. You can still hear them speaking as this is happening, but imagine pulling your attention off of that person.
Sasha Pearl: Mm.
Zoe: And placing it back into the center of your head. And there's something, this is another part of what I teach in the energy essentials class, is that when you have your attention on yourself resting in your own space, there's a kind of space of neutrality that's available there. And it's also tends to feel much calmer and more manageable and more grounded because it's your own attention in your own space rather than getting kind of pulled in.
Sasha Pearl: Okay.
Zoe: To all the stuff outside of you. So that's one place to start, I would say.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, I love that. And I know what you mean by like being so absorbed by the other person's energy. Cause I'm a natural empath and how I connect is like, especially my early 20s, not so much now. I have a lot more boundaries, obviously. But I would just be like, let me feel every feeling that you've ever had. Tell me everything. And then I'd leave being like, they're feeling great. And I'm like dead. And I'm like, why did I do that? Like I don't need to c that's not how I need to connect with other people. Like I can still do as much connecting without sinking. You know those like gummy, have you ever seen that meme where it's like,
Zoe: Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: the projectors and you're like two gummy bears and like melted into each other. Yeah. And I'm like, that was me. Like I didn't have any energetic sovereignty. I was just like, if I get depleted, then I've done my work. Right. And that's just like so backwards.
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's also so, so much programming that we receive that all people receive, but especially women receive around being a good woman or a good friend is taking on the other person's pain or like really like feeling what they're feeling, and that's how we love a person. And that really gets us deplete. It's like a self-sacrificial picture, and it gets makes us depleted. Where in reality, if you can be in your own space, in the center of your head, in your own energy and still witnessing and listening to the experience that someone is having. having in a way there's almost a greater sense of like allowing and honoring of the experience that the person is having because it's not like I have to heal you or I have to fix you or I have to take it on to legitimize it. It's like, yeah, I see you and what you're in. And I also trust you to experience it for yourself that you got this. I'm here listening, but I'm not going to take responsibility for it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Underline that, people. Underline that. It's so true. It's like, I don't need to save you. I trust that you can save, or not, yes, not even saving, but support yourself and help yourself for sure. So you talked about this like energy essentials. Is it a workshop? Is it a course? Tell us a little bit more about what that is.
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah, totally. So basically like the fundamental kind of energetic hygiene tools and energy work tools that I like that psychic meditation class that I took is there's basically the same as the energy essentials class that I now teach. so it's and that's you know, I've learned I've taken eight years worth of training, sometimes doubling up. So even more than that. I've learned all kinds of cool, like out there shit, right? But these fundamental energy essentials tools are the ones that I use every single day that have made the biggest difference in my life. So the class itself is five 90 minute classes, like once a week for five weeks. and there's an online version. I'm teaching my first in-person version ever in Portland in August, in August. but basically each week I'm giving you tools to add to your energetic hygiene toolkit so you can move other people's energy out of your space and bring back more of your own and ultimately then have a greater sense of like well-being and vitality, and to know how to move through the world by not taking so much stuff on. So again, whether it's scrolling on social media or watching the news or having a conversation or like just being around your family, you know, going. You know, it's like it's like it just allows.
Sasha Pearl: Big
Zoe: those these tools allow you to move through life with more of that sense of seniority over your own space and balance. There's like such a relief to it of not having to just run all this other stuff through your space unconsciously.
Sasha Pearl: I lo I think that's like so needed in this world and I love that you're teaching it live in August. So that's great.
Zoe: Yeah. I I say this all the time, but like I really, I really wish that this class was like required curriculum for every human being. Truly, because like thinking about all the bullshit like the Pythagorean theorem and like the quadratic form like shit that calculus, like none of that was going to but if we had had this class in like tenth grade or whatever, I truly think the world would be a different place if people just had this basic information.
Sasha Pearl: Well, I'm wonder like, could you why can't you? Like go with like go and here it is. Yeah, yeah. Call some people. You were an HR, you got this. Your one of your core gifts is about bringing community together. Like it's truly like let's get people around a table and let's talk. Or food or, you know, whatever that is for you. So like I think I could really see you in in schools or in types of communities sharing this work. I think it's very
Zoe: Yeah, I mean call some people, yeah. Yeah. That's part of what I part of what I love the energy about the Energy Essentials class is like you get all of these people who've never met each other before but have so many sort of crossovers and similarities in terms of their experiences of being feeling sensitive, intuitive people in the world where it's like, yeah, that happens to me too, or this happens to me. And there's just like this sort of compounded sense of realization and clearing that happens when we come together as a group.
Sasha Pearl: yeah, it's like it's written in your chart and you're float line, so that makes sense too. You're like amazing. On track. Thanks, Bob. so I would love to hear more too about your before well, okay. You started this work of, you know, understanding your own intuitive and now you're teaching this in the world. What were some of the limitations that you personally had to work through to be who you are today?
Zoe: Yeah. That's great. That is a potent question. And I'm like, where do I where do I even start? The limitations I had to work through. I mean, I kind of the first thing that comes to mind, I've sort of already touched on it, but like really at its root, just like caring what other people think of me. that
Sasha Pearl: Right.
Zoe: has been such a major process of unlearning in terms of recognizing that if I'm living my life in accordance to what I think other people want or will like, I'm severely limiting what I can actually have. So again, you know, I've been learning this work, practicing this work as a practitioner, teaching this work, and also been the recipient. Of this work. So it's like hitting on all cylinders. So as a result of all of this work over time, like I've really come to understand that this kind of the potency over palatability thing, but like likability isn't everything. And that if I'm being my true self, then I will naturally draw. People experience this opportunities that are aligned to that energy. And if someone or something is not drawn to or aligned to that energy, then it wasn't for me. And that's cool. Like not everybody is for everybody. So there's just been a huge relaxation around like having to be liked by everybody and like trying to get it right or get it perfectly. You know, like there's I have a lot of information and there's a lot of stuff that I know. I'm a pretty wise person, but like there's plenty of shit that I don't know and we'll never know. And like I'm cool with that. What how fascinating that I get to like just continue learning and discovering. I don't have to be, I don't have to be perfect or try to be perfect all the time. That was just such a limiting, such a limiting thing. I think too, what comes up next is and especially in terms of entrepreneurship, was around or has been around being seen. Always being seen. Again, because of the like, but will people like what they see? and then also, you know.
Sasha Pearl: Always project your shadows. You met you? Of course they will. Okay.
Zoe: Okay, right. I know. I mean, now I now I have no qualms or questions about it, but it took a while. But also like to come out of the closet as like, I'm a psychic. You know, people have the world has so many pictures about what that means and it's foo foo and blah blah. And you know, I've gotten to the point of like really owning my shit and and what I do with a lot of seniority, so it doesn't affect me in the same way. But like, you know, you get little things along the way. I the subtext being like, That's weird or that's woo woo or that's not real. So that was a I don't know if it's a limitation per se, but it was like a pretty deep part of my growth period to be able to get here to be like, No, this shit is legit and it'll change your life and that's the facts, you know.
Sasha Pearl: All right. Yeah, I always say I was like a human des I was always in the closet about human design. I was like such a human design closet like in the closet about human design or something like that. And I'm like I was so afraid to share it because of of the no one's gonna take me seriously, but you know what they will take seriously? Me doing things that are tangible. So branding, website design, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm like, but I'm missing the point of like I'm missing the point of who I am. And I think it's just so important to honor the fullness and wholeness of like well. Like we were our souls were given for us to express into this world. And the fact that like so many people are not even even expressing like one percent of their gifts, like it breaks my fucking heart. Like it breaks my heart, you know.
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what sort of what comes to mind in line with what we've been speaking about after you say that is really around like giving myself permission to do things my way. Again, especially in the realm of entrepreneurship, I f I like to call entrepreneurship the ultimate spiritual journey because it it will kick some shit up and show you all your shadows and stuff. So it's like that's where a lot of this cut stuff is like on the mat in the on the field.
Sasha Pearl: so powerful. It is.
Zoe: But like really in terms of limitations, in a way it was like feeling like I had to do things in a certain template way in order to succeed or to make something work. and it's been a multi-year process of unlearning that basically like, actually doing all that shit is gonna make it not work.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, well you said that you like were in like a pro a business coaching program, right? So is that those are that's the framework that you're talking about that you have
Zoe: Yeah, so basically like the I think the first thing I did was like a group coaching program with a woman who it's basically like, here is the formula that I used. And so I'll coach you how to use my formula. And like some of the some of this formula was like cold DMing people.
Sasha Pearl: My God, okay, don't if you're a projector out there, do not do it. You have to be invited.
Zoe: And frankly, I'm gonna be honest, if you're anybody, don't do it. Like
Sasha Pearl: Don't do it. Dude, someone gave me that advice today and I was like, Does that work for you? And she's like, Yeah. And I was like, Are you
Zoe: I've been on the receiving, I've been on the receiving end of that so many times. And like regardless of what energy type the person is, it just is such an ick. It's like giving me the ick so hard. I'm like, I know what you're doing. And like, no. So anyway, so it's like making me do stuff like that. And like you gotta be consistent and you gotta post every day and you gotta use the hashtag. There's like all of these like rules about how to do it. And it really like burnt me out. It made me hate.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah.
Zoe: what I was doing. And then and then I got like a one-on-one business coach who was a really lovely person and like I did get some benefit from her. She was a great like support, but again it was like, here's a template, follow the template. And she was a generator. So it was like we're not we're not the same. so that really that whole process of like trying all this other shit that wasn't working really helped me to shift into like my way and I say this to my clients all the time.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah.
Zoe: The way that works for you is the way that's going to work. Working against yourself and against your energy is only going to cause, you know, like kinks in the hose or like dams in the river of flow. So that required a lot of like, okay, I give myself permission and not be productive. I give myself permission to like not have a schedule of when I'm sending out newsletters. I give myself permission to not post every day. and What I've noticed, the more I've leaned into the natural way that my energy wants to be and create and show up, the more all of these things have just started to come in with ease. So that's why that's sort of in the work that I do with entrepreneurs in my emergence program, I basically read energy psychically about them and their business to essentially decondition them from all the shit that they've learned about how they have to be in their business or to be successful, so that the real essence of them and what they're creating can come through.
Sasha Pearl: Interesting. Okay. So actually in your human design, you are meant to be consistent and you're meant to be disciplined about it. So I find that really interesting.
Zoe: So there's certain I would say there's like certain things that like that I've learned of where and when to be consistent and where and when to be disciplined. So like in terms of discipline, I'm always gonna if I set out a task, I'm always gonna get it done. But I've learned that I can be looser about I don't need to schedule it exactly in a certain way because I'm gonna trust how my energy flows. Or consistently is like, I'm gonna send out a newsletter. It's just not gonna be every single week. You know, I'm gonna show up and do it consistently, but that's how I found at least right now. You know, things change and Evan Flow.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. Yeah. I actually have question for like, yes, trust your energy, trust your flow. I'm really curious how you handle, like, if my intention is to be here and I want to create this amount of money and I want to create this offering, but I don't want to be seen and I don't want X, Y, and Z because they're act that what they don't want to do is actually rooted in fear. So are you doing a bunch of the like decluttering, deconditioning, and then going into now that you are a clear. energetic sovereignty, what do you choose now? Right. Because you have to build an identity to if you want something, you do have to build an identity to hold it. So what is your process as far as like, like, yeah, we can say like, we're just gonna be in flow and do the things. It's like, but you do need structure to get things done. Like at the end of the day, to be the most feminine we can be, we do need some sort of structure. So yeah, tell me more about your process with that.
Zoe: Yeah. Well that's part of what I love so much about energy work is like it gets to the root of the thing right away. Rather than take thinking about it or talking about it or processing it more from like the conscious logical brain. It gets to the root of, okay, here's why you're afraid of being seen and here's the next steps or the energy clearing to do to help you take a step in that, or here's why you aren't being consistent or aren't showing up. It's this is the thing at the root of it. So I find that like very often as entrepreneurs especially will Identify a problem and then they kind of try to solve the problem through the symptoms of the problem. Like I'm not getting clients, so that must mean I need to create more posts or send out more email newsletters. And it's like the the surface level symptomatic things aren't actually gonna move the needle. It's the stuff at the root of it. so when I work with someone one-on-one who's an entrepreneur or working on their business, I'm kind of looking at both lenses or talking about both things. It's kind of like Well, if you want to get here and you have this goal, we can't skip this other stuff over here that's actually keep like not allowing you to be aligned with that goal. And then but is that goal actually your truth or is it a thing that you think you're supposed to do or that you have to do? And like what is your truth then in all that? So it's just a lot of like, I think you maybe said decluttering, like decluttering of
Sasha Pearl: Mm.
Zoe: The energy that gets in the way. And then also all of the noise that gets in the way of us having our own answer about what the next right step is. So it's like, well, everybody has a sub stack now. So maybe I should start a substack. Maybe starting a sub stack will solve my problem. Or like maybe I should raise my prices because this other person raised their prices. And da da da da. It's like all of the external influence of like maybe I should do that actually just clouds like what's right for you. Okay, maybe a sub stack looks good for you, but like maybe not right now. Maybe that's five years down the line and then it will really hit. Maybe there's other stuff to focus on. It's it's just so different with every person. Obviously,
Sasha Pearl: yeah.
Zoe: depending on where they are and what's alive for them, but it's part of why I was inspired to create the emergence program is because I had spent all this time doing the more surface level symptomatic businessy running coaching stuff. And it was not, it was hollow. And it was only once I started applying energy work to my business and looking at things intuitively, neutrally in energy, that things actually started to move and change and work.
Sasha Pearl: Yes.
Zoe: In the way that I wanted them to.
Sasha Pearl: Wait, I actually love that you talked about neutrality. I talk about neutrality a lot. It's like as if you can just move into neutrality, that is where you can then start moving up your way to your signature state, which for projectors is success. But when we're in bitterness, we're in it, right? And so, but if we can just be not charge around neutrality, then we can start looking at what would actually cause us success, right? Is it the substack or is it not like or is it something else? Like why are you choosing whatever the thing is? Is it because you truly want to, or is it not? so I really l love that. But I would love to hear your what are your thoughts on like neutrality and like what's your belief system about getting people to neutrality to then make decisions?
Zoe: Yeah. Well, so neutrality is a core, like fundamental core part of reading psychically. So in the school that I teach at and the training that I received, it's all about how do you get neutral in the center of your head to read energy, like in the form of sort of pictures and symbols and to be able to describe it without being caught up in your emotions about it or caught up in what you're thinking about what you're seeing or what is the other person gonna think about what you're seeing or what do they want to hear. All of the the stuff that is non-neutrality that would get in the way of you giving what's called a clean reading, meaning this is what's here and this is what I see.
Sasha Pearl: Well we
Zoe: That in a way, that is what creates the greatest opening for insight because it's free from attachment to what I want it to be or what it's supposed to be or what I think it should be. It's like this is just what's here and how it is. So that's the really the basis of that kind of work and it's it's transformative. So that kind of neutrality is a big part of the classes that I take and teach and and how I do my work. And then also what I would say is like, in essence, if you're not neutral to something, that thing has power over you.
Sasha Pearl: Ooh, I just got chills.
Zoe: And you know, this is with the caveat of like in every situation, is it always possible to be a hundred percent neutral? No, like I love my husband. I'm never gonna be a hundred percent neutral about him. I want him to be like alive and healthy and love me. Like, you I mean, like I'm not neutral about that. So this is like, you know, with a grain of salt, but in terms of something that is really upsetting you or that you're overthinking about or you're losing your space to in some way, because you're not neutral, it has power over you. And so In a way, being in your own energy and being in the center of your head allows you to occupy a space of neutrality so that what you are relating with no longer has the same power over you. And then you can make an a decision informed by what it is you're seeing, like what you're actually interacting with versus what an emotion or opinion or somebody else's picture or emotion or opinion might like might cause you to interact with it in a certain way. If that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, absolutely. Wow, that's really beautiful. So just to I want to just ground this in like practicality because you said one of your things was fear of or one of your limitations in the past was fear of visibility. So you must have had to come into a neutral place to now show up and be visible or be okay at least with showing up. So tell me a little bit more about that process and then we'll start
Zoe: Yeah. Well, I remember the first time that I ever got on an Instagram story and talked to the camera and showed my face. Like I remember doing it. And this was probably like 2018 or whatever, like around the same time that we met. And that was like a my God, I'm doing that. And then so it's been, you know, and I I'm on Instagram and I make videos. And I at this point I'm very comfortable with it, but it's part of how I've gotten neutral is like. just showing up and doing it over and over and over again. So like this podcast interview, had we had this podcast interview, you know, five years ago or whatever, I would have been shaking in my boots for three days leading up to it. And now at this point it's like I can show up and be like, yeah, here we are. This is awesome, you know, but it's still, it's like I'm blowing pictures, I'm clearing energy around being seen. So that's another way, like life experience too is another way to sort of gain a neutrality with something where it doesn't have to overpower you or Overwhelm you.
Sasha Pearl: yeah, I yeah, I love that so much. Yeah, I was just curious. I was like, hmm, I wanna have that. Because I I it's like one day I woke up and I was like, I was fine, but I must have just been putting in reps because it 'cause I was absolutely terrified of speaking and then I all of a sudden wasn't and I'm like, What? I don't know what happened, but here we are.
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's like, you know, there's steps to it. Like, I mean, I have a dream one day of like being on stage with a microphone in front of like hundreds of people. That will be a I won't be neutral to that. The first time I'll do that. You know what I'm saying? So it's like we're taking steps. We're moving and growing. That's what it's all about.
Sasha Pearl: Same, same. Yeah. So I don't know if you know this, but your core gift is all about sharing the things that you love with enthusiasm. So like your core gift is from the throat center. So you are meant to be communicating everything that you're learning in a way that is enthusiastic so people can really like, you know, bask in the the juiciness of the content. So I just want to let you know like you're you're absolutely on your path and like you are activating your core gift right now.
Zoe: Yeah. That's another thing. Like I I think I listened to my gene key of gate sixteen about enthusiasm or whatever. And when I again when I first heard it, I was like, what the fuck is this? Like and of course gene keys is like a little like ethereal and like I don't totally understand what you're saying, but it sounds poetic. I was like, this is like can I have a better one, you know? And I think I think for a long time it's because I well that's another sort of we're talk if we're talking about limitations, like felt like too much. Like my
Sasha Pearl: Yeah.
Zoe: enthusiasm, and this came out in my dating life a lot, where I was like, I'm too enthusiastic about people. I need to rein in. Like, I can't be writing love poems about them this early on, but I that's who I am. So for a while I was caging in the the too much and the taking up space because I was worried how other people would respond to it. I didn't want people to be upset with me or think it was wrong or be jealous of it or what whatever the combination of responses could be. So that also made me smaller.
Sasha Pearl: Okay.
Zoe: in a way when I did that. and so it's really been a process of like leaning into my enthusiasm and recognizing that like that's just a central like when I talk about this stuff, I like I can't like I'm sweating. Like I get I get it's not because I'm nervous, it's because I'm like hyped. You what I'm saying? I get so excited because I'm like, this is the Jews. This is the stuff. And I'm I can come to see that now very much as a gift.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, because I mean like if you think our signature states is success. So like I feel like when you speak about this and with all that enthusiasm, that is like a sense of like, my God, people want to listen to what I have to say about this. This is amazing. This is success. Right. Like what is your version of success? And that that's it, right? And then when 'cause when you're in that signature state, then you are activating your core gift, which is
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. And in a way, if it weren't like so great, I wouldn't be so enthusiastic about it.
Sasha Pearl: No. And then that would be like, why are you learning about this? And stop. Yeah. And my core gift is the direction of the self, which apparently it's all about. Well, apparently I know it's about guiding other people, but I guiding myself. And I'm like, I just want to be guided by someone else for a moment, please. And I'm self-rejected. So I already have the answer. And I'm like, I mean, we all do, but like it's very important that I listen to my own advice.
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah. Do something else. Yeah. Yeah. Well that's interesting, just to like t dovetail off of that for a moment. a again, like if I keep I keep saying a central tenant or a core part, like they all are. Like a core part of this work is also that ultimately you have your own answers and your own answers are going to be the right answers and the best answers for your life. And so this process of energetic clearing and energetic sovereignty and reading energy and all that stuff is to basically give people a giant permission slip to have their own answers about things and get rid of the interference that either they don't have permission for it or they don't believe it'll be real or they don't trust that it will work or it sounds crazy. but that inner compass of your own answers is like literally your spirit trying to guide you where you're supposed to be.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, it one hundred percent. And it like actu again, I'm talking about all the things that are breaking my heart, but the fact that we even have to have a permission slip to access our own truth breaks my fucking heart.
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like it's less in a way the way I see it, like a permission slip from outside. It's less that I'm giving them like you have permission from me. It's more like here's all this stuff that was getting in the way of it, and we're making enough space for you to be able to see that you have the permission and it's just about giving it to yourself, you know.
Sasha Pearl: And that's like so it's just so powerful when you have your own self sovereignty too. And you show up in that way. Because I I believe that like when we show up in our authenticity, we actually inspire and like show people that they can also show up in their truest form too. And I think that's where everything starts the collectively just getting getting higher and higher in potency and vibration.
Zoe: Mm-hmm. This is the part where we like get on our podiums and like preach about like we're all this is not gonna create world peace. But like truly, let's think about it for a moment. If every single person trusted themselves and trusted their own answers and had their own energy for themselves, energetic sovereignty, the world would be a different place. It would be a different place. We wouldn't have to fight about some shit. We just yeah.
Sasha Pearl: We're gonna be on stage together. Yeah. It would be I had a numerology, last thing I'm gonna say. I had a numerology reading yesterday and I'm a life path three. I don't know if it's actually the three that says this, but it's like making the world a better place. And I'm like, that literally was my tagline in 2020. Thank you. so we're gonna wrap this up. I asked this question to everyone on the podcast. So hold on, let me okay. So if someone were to really know you, what would they need to know about you?
Zoe: Love it. I show up and live fully. So I show up to my experiences fully, to my relationships, to my feelings, to my perspective on the world, to my teaching, to everything. Like I'm really alive in everything that I do. So there's a lot of beauty in that, right? For some people it can be a lot and it might not work for them. but I I guess I just like. So my I don't know if this directly answers your question, but fuck it, it's what's coming up when you ask it, is my name means life in Greek. and I was born at the peak, like to the minute under a full moon. And I had an astrologer tell me one time that that is like a signature that says
Sasha Pearl: All I care about.
Zoe: Basically, this person is here to live a full moon life, like the fullest, brightest expression of a life. And so I feel like that is so much of the essence of who I am is like in the in the dark, heavy, hard, challenging, griefy parts and in the ecstatic joy part, like that whole range and in between, there's just a quality of like trust and presence that I have. with life. And so I bring that into all of the work that I do. I kind of like to think of myself in a way too as like a translator of of like life and spirit and how it's trying to move us and teach us. Yeah. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: So beautiful. And for anyone who's interested in working with you, how can they work with you? And connect with you.
Zoe: Yeah, thanks for asking. Yeah. So there's the energy essentials class that I mentioned. I teach that at a school called Clarity School. so like I said, there's an online version, there's an in-person version in Portland in August. So I'm sure that link will be somewhere. and then you can work with me in a reading or healing session. So I do one-on-one intuitive work with people. Basically, you can bring any area of life, any question, anything you got going on, and we can explore it through the lens of energy to kind of like I've been saying, clear out the stuff that's in the way of you having clarity or having your own answer to come to more of a space of balance and insight and like truth for yourself. and then I have that program Emergence, which is a one-on-one intuitive program for entrepreneurs who are like tired of the matrixy business bullshit stuff and want to have a business that's really aligned to their energy and their truth. and then I guess the last thing I'll say is at Clarity School, me and the the founder of the school are currently creating a year-long energy healer training program that I'm so excited about. This is like lifelong mock-up coming to fruition. that's gonna be starting online in January.
Sasha Pearl: my god, I'm very excited about that for you. That's awesome. And then how can people connect?
Zoe: Yeah, Instagram is a great place. I show up on there. I like to post funny videos and talk to the camera and whatnot. and then my website, Zoe Grayman.com at Zoe Grayman for Instagram. Those are the two main avenues. Certainly you can hit me up with an email if you want. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: Who does that? No, just kidding. thank you so much for being on the podcast. It was so lovely to yeah, chat today.
Zoe: This was so fun. I could have done this all day. Thank you.
Sasha Pearl: You're so welcome.
