In this episode, gentle trauma release specialist Ramona Kossowan explores coming home to your body, falling back in love with yourself, and releasing what your body has been bracing for.
We talk about:
• Gentle trauma release & nervous system healing
• Healing trauma without reliving it
• Releasing shame & guilt from the body
• Wounded parts & protective archetypes
• Moving from guilt toward courage
• Self-abandonment & self-advocacy
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Website: ramonakcoaching.com, gentletraumacoach.com
IG: https://www.instagram.com/ramonakcoaching
FB: https://www.facebook.com/RamonaKCoaching
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ramona-kossowan-380ba66a/
YT: https://www.youtube.com/@ramonakcoaching
Substack: https://substack.com/@ramonakcoaching
Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/ramonakcoaching/
Email: ramona@ramonakcoaching.com
Trauma Assessment: https://ramonakcoaching.com/gentle-trauma-assessment/
Who's Running the Show: https://ramonakcoaching.com/whos-running-the-show
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Full Episode Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated, so a few words may be a little off.
Ramona Kossowan: But one of the big things that comes along with trauma healing is learning to stop abandoning yourself. when you deny your own inner truth repeatedly. So if you say yes when you want to say no, if you lack a boundary or you allow a boundary to be encroached out of discomfort, that's telling your your inner child, I'll abandon you
Sasha Pearl: What if falling in love with yourself was the most radical thing that you could do? Today on the podcast, we have Ramona Coselin on a gentle trauma release specialist, and we talk about how to heal the wounds within in order for us to feel fully expressed and authentically ourselves in the world. I'm your host, Sasha Pearl, the Energy Architect, and I guide solid women in building authentic six figure businesses bylighting their identity, their brand, and their Content from the inside out because I believe that our fullest expression is our greatest currency. but before we hop into the episode, I wanted to share that I just launched Human First Content Intensive. This is a 90 minute call where we dive deep into your social channels and we use your unique energetics to build out a playbook that is authentically you. So not only do we talk about the strategy of the platforms, but we're also talking about what makes you you, and we layer in your business so you can start creating content that actually feels I don't know, good to create. Like it doesn't need to fucking suck. So I'm so excited to be sharing this with you. This is something that I have been utilizing in my own business and I am just obsessed with it. So the link will be in the show notes to book a discovery call with me so we can just discuss, yap it out, and see if we are a good fit. And with further ado, let's get into this episode. Okay, today on the podcast we have Ramona Cosalon. She is a one-three generator with sacral authority. Ramona, what do you do in the world? Thank you for being on the podcast.
Ramona Kossowan: Hi, thank you. I help women to fall in love with themselves and revitalize themselves in a very deep-rooted way. So without giving you like a boring list of certifications, it's really about getting them out from under what's in the way. And that's usually trauma and adding in what's needed. So a fresh identity that represents who she really is, boundaries and a sense of self. And t taking care of her precious body, her vessel for all the experiences she wants in her life.
Sasha Pearl: I love that. And then how did you so I always I mean we always I feel like the work in the world that we have is usually based off of our past experiences. So tell me a little bit more about your becoming into this work and all of the identity shifts you had to essentially cross to get to where you're at today.
Ramona Kossowan: Well, it's interesting. I keep going through these new evolutions and with it every time comes new clothes. New
Sasha Pearl: Yeah.
Ramona Kossowan: clothes that represents an old me, so I'm driving my husband crazy. But I never set out to be a gentle trauma release coach or a trauma coach or or even a coach initially. I I I didn't know that I had that possibility. I couldn't see it. but I did follow entrepreneurship that was modeled by my mother and she started out with empowering mothers and women and families to keep their kids healthy. And I started out with that, but then I realized that's not where I was meant to stay. It wasn't quite the right fit. So I I kind of kept growing into the next thing. So the next thing was fitness because I love I don't want to send someone else to go figure it out. I l let's do this, right? So I want to help people to love taking care of their body with fitness. And I realized after I opened the studio here that you see behind me after period of time I still enjoyed it, but I realized this wasn't going to be where I land and stay. This isn't going to be my whole thing. It just wasn't, I'm not that epitome of a fitness coach. It's a piece of the puzzle. So I knew I wanted to go deeper. I could see that women were struggling and always bumping up against their emotions, right? They're giving up on themselves, can't make themselves a priority. And it's almost like a compulsion. So you can get have all the best information in the world. It will make no difference if you can't Make yourself a priority. So when things came across my consciousness, I learned about personal empowerment coaching, which is working with the map of consciousness, in like the with the power. Exactly. So that was
Sasha Pearl: I love the map of consciousness.
Ramona Kossowan: really intriguing to me. I went through that training, it took me like a year. but that also connected me with the Gentle Trauma Release Institute, which was in its newer stages at that time, like 2020. And When I learned that the symptoms of some of my practice clients were exhibiting were classic trauma symptoms, and that's why I couldn't help them, I was like, so that's why this didn't help. I wasn't doing something wrong. And I was invited to take this training. And it was just such an embodied yes. Like I I had to go down that path. Like it just completely aligns with I want to get to the problem and solve the problem. That's the practical in me. Like the Chinese element would be wood. Like, let's get to the problem and solve the problem, right? But also the earthy part of me, I want to have an impact. I want to sit with people in those deeper places and help them to shift. And to me, it's just been the mind-blowing gratification of being able to help facilitate those shifts in others, hold space for them, and witness that in real time. it's definitely. my true calling, I think, for at this at least at this point in my life. Like there's still the other bits, but that's like the foundation, that's the values, that's the lenses I see my work through is healing, growth, and helping women to like themselves.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, I love that. And tell us I wanna dive deep a little bit into the map of consciousness too. So how does that well a I would love to hear in your words, what is the map of consciousness for people who do not know what that is?
Ramona Kossowan: Right, there's a book called Power versus Force by David Hawkins, I believe. And you don't need to run out and read the book, it's not gonna tell you what to do, and it's kind of dry. But it was the foundation of my empowerment coach certification with the SWAT Institute. And it's to realize that you can't go from down in shame and apathy and guilt and bypass into joy, love, forgiveness, whatever it is. It's like climbing a ladder. You've got to go r one rung at a time. so by climbing the map of consciousness, you start to see the world differently. You see yourself differently, you see that your place in the world, and you become more resourceful and creative when you're in those higher energies of emotions. No emotion is wrong. It's all just a message, it's just showing where you're resonating sometimes. So courage is where your true self starts to run the show. Anything below that is not quite there. So What I found is was a challenge is for a lot of women, when they reach out for coaching, they're stuck somewhere. It's not because everything's hunky-dory and they're high on like, or let's go get some coaching. Let's go. No, it's because they're stuck, right? So
Sasha Pearl: There's just enough pain.
Ramona Kossowan: yeah, and they're uncomfortable or it's it's something they can't see their way through. And usually along when you identify where that's coming from, underneath there's some element of shame. So meaning who I am is no good. Or what I do isn't good enough, or I need to earn my worth on some unconscious level. it's not necessarily like for me when I was experiencing that, it wasn't me walking around thinking, yeah, I'm a loser all the time, I just suck all the time. I didn't, but it was my unconscious feeling that. And what I love is the empowerment coaching and the map of consciousness, hold hands with gentle trauma release, because down there in the shame and guilt area, that is where trauma resides. Always. So that is where we go. We get out from under it, we release it, and you just naturally start to rise like the beach ball kind of out of the water.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm. Love. So you use gentle trauma release to support in moving up the ladder. Is that correct? Okay. And so when you
Ramona Kossowan: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Sasha Pearl: are meeting your clients, you're meeting them in the lower frequencies of guilt and shame, normally?
Ramona Kossowan: Well that's what shows up. So they might be, for example, a very high functioning woman. She
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: doesn't look like she's in guilt and shame. But for example, there can be an element of earning your worth by performing, very performance based and not giving yourself grace. that is guilt and shame driven at some point, unconsciously. So what's underneath that's driving the bus? What part of you is running the show? and I put that in Mode and one of three offers that you can share later too is who's running the show. Because we have the wounded parts that show up. So you might look just look like you're you're killing it, maybe in your job. And
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: then where seams fall apart the seams is maybe how you care for your body. maybe it's how you eat. maybe it's what you tolerate in c love relationships that you would never tolerate somewhere else. and those are all just something to look at with curiosity as an opportunity for healing.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, absolutely. So what are some things then for if people are listening to this podcast and they're like, okay, I am operating from those lower levels, what are some simple tools that they can use to even 1% start moving towards courage and neutrality?
Ramona Kossowan: Well, what I like to think about is maybe think about an area of your life where you where it does feel really good. Like maybe you're an amazing mother or an amazing friend or daughter, or maybe you're just really good at your your work or your business. That version of you, what would she do in this situation? You can transfer that over. Sometimes it's pretty entrenched and you're too close to it, but it's If you were to take a moment and ask yourself if I really liked myself more than other people's expectations, judgment or fear, what would I want for myself in this situation? And you can usually do a little gut check there, and you'll know if your body is saying yes or no.
Sasha Pearl: I love that. So it comes back into more of this like mindset and asking the questions, like actually getting clear on how you feel in the moment of these like lower vibrational frequencies.
Ramona Kossowan: Yeah, and we don't mostly operate from seeing it through those lines. It's like that's not language women
Sasha Pearl: Right.
Ramona Kossowan: use when they connect with me. I'm operating in guilt and shame. They literally never say that, right? But they might just say,
Sasha Pearl: I know.
Ramona Kossowan: I don't feel good about myself. I don't know who I am. you know,
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: I I've struggled with confidence, I beat myself up all the time, right? I can't stop eating, like whatever it is, look for the the signs. But if if you were to just first remove the judgment, because when your body adapts. To trauma, which is at the simplest level, it's simply distress without resolve. It's
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: all it is. It doesn't mean you had something horrific happen, but a lot of women have. I work with that too. But sometimes it's the long-term slow drip where your sense of self is eroded and shrank and diminished and hidden. so it's it's sometimes just giving yourself some grace, instead of saying, I always this or I never that, it's like, well, what is how is this? helping me and maybe it's like preventing conflict, preventing being judged, preventing being excluded. And and does this feel familiar? Right? And and just notice that your body adapted this way with wisdom. It's just not serving you now because you are resourced. You are wise. You're a grown-ass woman. but it's just
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: the wisdom in these initial adaptations that carry you forward and keep repeating. Is is forgiving for whatever you chose or didn't choose that you don't feel good about. Your body
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: is wise, it is trying to help and protect you, but it's just a wounded part of you. So in that guide that I mentioned, the who's running the show, I dive a little bit into the archetypes, and that was tied into my empowerment coaching. so in our wholeness, complete self, not perfect, good, bad, ugly,
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: she's all there, right? Nice and nasty, she's all there. you'll have archetypes or versions of you that can fall into the general category
Sasha Pearl: Okay.
Ramona Kossowan: of mother or daughter or parent or child if you want to be more neutral with the language. So my mother energy was controlling, rigid, bossy, drill sergeant, arm's length, walls up, well-meaning, but not a lot of fun. That was one of my wounded parts.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah.
Ramona Kossowan: another was the warrior, which was my like my teenage girl that
Sasha Pearl: Mm.
Ramona Kossowan: emerged sword up, shield up, ready for battle. Imagine how she is in a marriage. Not so not so good, right? Not so good. so I I'm sure my kids' principals experienced her at some point,
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: but It was it's recognizing those are wounded parts. They form to protect you, but they're just not your wholeness. They're not equipped to run your life. So I go into that a little more in the in the guide, of course, which people can explore.
Sasha Pearl: Okay.
Ramona Kossowan: And I do it lightheartedly because we're meant to stop judging ourselves and and have a little laugh of recognition.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. Well so the you you spoke to adapt we have adaptations. And so
Ramona Kossowan: Mm-hmm.
Sasha Pearl: are the adaptations the wounded parts that you were just speaking of?
Ramona Kossowan: Yeah, there's different lenses you can see it through. So you'll see the archetypes and the behaviors and the patterns. You others might give
Sasha Pearl: Okay.
Ramona Kossowan: it a different label. They might say nervous system dysregulation, or they might see dissociation or codependence or enmeshment. If we don't use the words, look at the pattern. Okay, so if there's a pattern that feels repeated, frustrating, disempowered, even sabotaging, guarantee there's a wounded part of you running the show in there.
Sasha Pearl: Mm. Okay. And then with the wounded part, then is that where you start then treat not treating it, but bringing awareness to it through your gentle trauma release?
Ramona Kossowan: Yeah, with love, compassion, even gratitude. Thank her for how she protected you because she did a very good job when you needed her. And you don't send her away. You simply bring her home. You can't. She's part of you. She's a part of you, but just a little
Sasha Pearl: You can't. You literally can't. She's part of you.
Ramona Kossowan: bit. She's not your wholeness. so basically you just bring her home because she's usually young. She's a young version of you. Bring her home, love her. And with gentle trauma release, we actually get underneath what's anchoring. That trauma in place. So it's not always a big shocking event, but there's always a events. So sometimes it can be one that repeated a hundred times, like my mother said I'll never amount to anything, or my dad called me fat, or whatever it was. That's trauma as well, because it's it's diminishing your sense of self, right? It's affecting your identity and your feeling of safe to be seen in the world, to show up, to take space, have a voice. Push back, have boundaries. All right. If you can't have those things, there's trauma involved in there to some extent. It doesn't mean it's always some big shocking event. But quite often those things lead to eventually some shocking event because we end up in situations that hurt us.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: But when we work with releasing what your body is bracing for, everything changes. You naturally go through a transition, which is what I love. So, for example, I just recently did a little interview with a client. We connected for five calls. years of serious domestic abuse, and before that, other relational abuse and trauma, lots of stuff. She thought we'd be grinding away for years. So, five calls in, she's a new woman. All the stuff that was hanging on in her body. Keep her shoulders in her ears and keeping her small and timid and afraid to stand up for herself, gone. She's like proud, tall, lit up because her body's not bracing anymore. And that's what I love is to help women to know that you don't need to grind away and dig up the trauma and sit in that mess. No, we're just gonna get out from under it. We're gonna get out from under it. And you're gonna you're gonna change. You won't be the same again.
Sasha Pearl: I love that. And so I feel like you have a process here or a method or a framework.
Ramona Kossowan: Yeah, there is.
Sasha Pearl: So yes. Okay. So let's talk about that because it seems like the fact that she thought she was gonna spend a lifetime working on this and you're Yeah, I got you in five sessions. There there's a science to this.
Ramona Kossowan: Like I don't try to try to promise instant results of anything, but the relief starts immediately. And because her body and emotionally and mentally was so ready that it it just that's just where it went for her. It's a little different if you're like in the middle of something, like you're in the middle of a divorce and you're s experiencing post-separation abuse and you're and you're going through the grind all the time, or you live in a household where your partner's abusing alcohol. It's harder. But she was overcoming things in her life in real time. but here's the thing: when we when I connect with a woman, we we look for symptoms. What are you experiencing emotionally, mentally, and physically? I have a a s a check-in for that. Like we we look at what what are you experiencing? What doesn't feel good to you? What feels stuck and heavy? Where are we at? And then we get curious, building safety within the relationship. right, and also within the process of working strategically with your nervous system, not just hoping and praying and working on vibes. No. No, don't need that. So
Sasha Pearl: Ha ha ha.
Ramona Kossowan: what we do is we look for what caused your body
Sasha Pearl: Okay.
Ramona Kossowan: to anchor in this protective mode. And that's something we discovered together. They don't need someone to come and tell me what they need, you know, to do that. Just show off your hot mess or shut down mess or angry mess, I don't care. Fine. I can work through that with you. But We release what's anchoring the body, and that's we refer to that as core traumatic events. So it could be one event that happened like a hundred times in a hundred different ways. But that one, you remember. Pluck it off the shelf. Release that one. The rest go with them. Freedom. So that's for her, like she had, you know, all these years of repeated, very significant abuse. So we plucked some. What we call prototype memories off the shelf, like similar to many times, pluck them off, release them by working strategically with the nervous system until their body goes. I feel nothing, right? You look at it, it's like a distant picture on a wall a hundred feet away,
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: and it's like, mm, it's resolved. Doesn't mean what happened was okay, but you're no longer charged.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: then your body starts to change and your your brain starts to change on its own. Because when you feel safe, your resilient, resourceful, creative mind steps back to the lead. So a lot of it just flows organically. We just get under that. And of course the human experience, right? And working with emotions, like we work with releasing the emotions as well that are heavy or stuck or really intense and it looks a little different for everybody, but the framework's the same.
Sasha Pearl: Wow, I it feels like you bring in the map of consciousness into that too as well, as far as like coming back to neutrality.
Ramona Kossowan: Yeah, we coming back to neutrality. Yeah, like it we don't necessarily address that initially when we're working this way together. So we look more for intensity. So for them, when the intensity comes down to zero, we're good. and that's it's very wonderful
Sasha Pearl: That's a good word. That's a good word. I like that.
Ramona Kossowan: to know that you can go from something being very intense to no intensity and it stays that way.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah.
Ramona Kossowan: And then later, as we're kind of moving more into the coaching part, like Clearing the residue of trauma, the behaviors, the beliefs, the inner critic, the boundaries, all the little messy pieces that attached to that. That's where we look more in coaching as the emotions. And if it's helpful in that scenario, we'll talk about the map of consciousness or where they're at. So they understand that although you're grieving right now, you're sad. This is actually several steps up the map of consciousness from where you were. So you're actually on your way up now from grieving. You're on your way up when you're afraid. You're on your way up when you're angry. And they're like, okay. 'Cause sometimes we're taught we only feel good things or it's wrong, right? It's like, no, they all have a purpose. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. That's why we have a feelings wheel here. It's like Yeah, exactly.
Ramona Kossowan: Yeah. They all have a purpose. Yeah. Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: So you were talking about nervous system regulation in the work that you do. So what are some modalities that you use in your work to help people come back to an intensity is zero?
Ramona Kossowan: Well, in this we did we do have specific proprietary protocols with the gentle trauma release method, but it's all based on ex existing research about the body. So it's all on Zoom, so it we're not doing a cold plunge or something kinda weird, right? It's gonna be moving with gentle touch. Like w if I rock my body like this and just sit like I'm like sitting in a rocking chair, that's a message of safety to my body. My autonomic nervous system picks that up as safety and gives the message to my brain. Safety. We don't apply slow, deliberate movement or gentle touch when we're experiencing a threat. And then there's other elements that will come in, like we can do elements of EMDR, which you might have heard of, which is eye movements, using the throat.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: And there's just like repeated
Sasha Pearl: The first thing.
Ramona Kossowan: exercises we do together in the session, which is more strategic to release a more intense memory or emotion. but they also get to practice that on their own once we've done it together, so they can start getting used to feeling okay. But in general, like for people listening, if you haven't really read a lot or heard a lot about the the ventral vagus nerve, it's it's a very large nerve network that runs from your body to your brain, so it speaks to your brain. So some things that you might have think thought of that were inconsequential are messages of safety. So eye contact with a safe person. A soft welcoming voice, open expression, hug, petting your pet, right? humming, little things with your hands like coloring or working in your garden or chopping vegetables, chewing and eating slowly, like massaging your ears. Like there's lots of strategic things you
Sasha Pearl: To
Ramona Kossowan: can do, and and some call it somatic work or vagus exercises. what changes here? in this container is that we are being very strategic and deliberate so that your body knows that one particular threat and whatever's attached to it is resolved. So you're
Sasha Pearl: pick it up.
Ramona Kossowan: not just trying to calm your nervous system, which is more of a self-care situation versus resolving things so that your body can change.
Sasha Pearl: Mm. Okay. I love that. So humming even, that's very interesting too.
Ramona Kossowan: Yeah, we hum happy birthday all the time in my sessions. Because
Sasha Pearl: Ha ha ha.
Ramona Kossowan: it's like you ask someone, you put on the start, like, I don't know. I'm like, it's not about the musical performance, so how about happy birthday? Like, yeah, okay. Mm-hmm. We're humming happy birthday.
Sasha Pearl: Ha ha ha.
Ramona Kossowan: I'm like, yay, me, it's how my birthday again.
Sasha Pearl: I love it. I love it. Well, I really love that you use so much somatic work and like you have the fitness background because your core gift in human design is gate forty-six, which is the love of the body. And it's really about understanding the importance of what it me like of your physical vessel in order to move through life. And I just like it just feels so resonant in the work that you do. And I always just I love that. And then how you shine in the world is through gate 15 of extremes. And I'm like, yep, you seem to go down into the depths of the subconscious here to bring them out into the conscious world and like shine light, shine light on on these things that, you know, like a lot of people still think that's like very taboo and like it's very scary to go there. And it's so interesting when you do have the courage to go there, what is on the other side side the pain.
Ramona Kossowan: Yeah, and it just takes just that little bit of courage. and it's an all-knowing
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: that's all with consent and you always have autonomy. Like when I was going through my training, it was kind of a hectic time. Like I had just finished my empowerment coaching, so I was like, Okay, I I guess I'm a coach now. Okay, now what am I gonna do? No my shit, right? And then COVID, my in-person business shut down, world crazy, news crazy, people crazy. And then I was taking my gentle trauma release coaching. I'm like, I guess I have something I can grab onto, my training, I should say. And then I it became more and more and more apparent. Like, I need to work on my stuff now. I'm like, damn it. I didn't want to do my own self.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: No, because I hate being vulnerable. Like it was the hardest thing because my number one protection was to wall up, right? so it was
Sasha Pearl: Mm, mm-hmm. So
Ramona Kossowan: very, very hard to be vulnerable. So I had to work with someone I felt safe with and also respected.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: so I did work with my own coach. So it was like quite the time li massive, massive shifts and it was a lot. but it's allowed me to show up as I am today.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. What were some of the shifts that you had to work through during that chaotic time?
Ramona Kossowan: It was a lot. Right. Bec because I was going through the training, I kind of knew a little bit about the process and wasn't done. I wasn't like someone brand new going, I'm not sure what to expect. So I went to my coach, okay, I wanna work with this, that, and that. I'm sick of this, right? So we would Right.
Sasha Pearl: The control, the control.
Ramona Kossowan: So we started with I think a more intense memory because I was aware, willing, and capable of being in that. And and it I think she had to grab her holy shit handles there a little bit. It's like But it was fine. It was but it's interesting. As I released a few, the rest I'm like, this doesn't seem like as much of a thing anymore. Like it just kinda changed. But what happened is I did go through grieving, some grieving, a lot of grieving. And I think that's normal and it you should be expected and embrace and allow. Because when you start to unfreeze, the grieving is inevitable. So for me I was grieving what was lost for me, what I did not get that I should have.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: what how I was hurt because of things
Sasha Pearl: Okay.
Ramona Kossowan: and the little girl in me, right? So I had to grieve. even though I was, you know, working on positive things and excited in many ways, I was still there was a period of grieving and it's it's was purposeful
Sasha Pearl: Yes.
Ramona Kossowan: to to move up the map of consciousness, right?
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: and I was still stepping out of my comfort zone in ways that were absolutely terrifying. And it's sometimes it is still terrifying, but not as much as before.
Sasha Pearl: And what are some of those like uncomfortable things that you've done to like really step into your power and you know live at least above courage most of the time?
Ramona Kossowan: Yeah, well even courage is enough. But
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. Yeah. Courage or above. What neutrality
Ramona Kossowan: Yeah, like
Sasha Pearl: or above?
Ramona Kossowan: neutrality for me, I think, has been very helpful. Like to accept people for who they are, and just decide where do I fall into this? Right? Maybe it's not putting myself in certain situations. But accepting people for who they are and where they're at for me, I think, has been very helpful. and it helps me to be more accepting of myself and where I'm at.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah.
Ramona Kossowan: At any given time.
Sasha Pearl: Where so when you say that, what was like the previous like aspects of other humans? Was it just like a lot of judgment or like how dare you think like that or do that? Like what what was the dialogue that was happening behind the scenes?
Ramona Kossowan: Yeah, I would feel more judgment. Right. Judgment would show up. That if if you're doing like a personality test or a Virgo thing, judgment would be like one of my shadow sides. So if I'm at my worst, I will feel more judgmental. Right? If I'm
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: my unhealed parts are showing up, I'm I would feel more judgmental. so
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: it helped me to to shift out of that. No, I just don't care so much. And I also I I come in the place that most people are doing the best they can. and the ones that aren't the ones that aren't,
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm. Mostly.
Ramona Kossowan: I might give them the what for, but it's it's not like I'm a I'm a doormat at all, but it's helped me to not be bothered as much when things happen or go wrong, right? I'd feel snubbed or misunderstood or whatever it is.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. Well, I'd love to also transition. So the the I love that you have worked on the the judgment and like really in the acceptance of like where meeting people where they are at and meeting yourself where you are at. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about why people want to fix themselves like as if we are problems and how we can actually move into thinking that we are actually the like our passion project. Like we are the love of our lives.
Ramona Kossowan: Well, I like to remind women, and sometimes this is very hard to wrap their head around that your your birth is your worth. Like you exist, so you are worthy. That's it. Stop talking, right? You were already worthy, shut up, right? So it's it's very hard for women to wrap their heads around that sometimes because they've been so programmed to earn, be validated, be witness, prove. So it's sometimes it's easier to help them think of someone else they care about, like a a child or niece, or nephew, or beloved friend, picture them because they still can't picture themselves as a baby worthy. well I lost my train of thought here. Where else were we going with this? Passion.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah.
Ramona Kossowan: passion project. So I w I created this as kind of a talk a while ago when I first started doing a little more speaking. when I connect with women, quite often they've been analyzing themselves to death for far too long. Right. And and women, I think, tend to be always given that load of hot garbage that you need to be always analyzing and reflecting. Why? Right? Like sometimes just live in your body and be happy with who you are and stop always analyzing, right? Just be. But I understand
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay.
Ramona Kossowan: that trap. but what I find especially is when we have patterns and behaviors and sticking points, we want to fix them. So we try to fix them over and over and over again. So what I see is the pattern interrupt is recognizing. Trauma's running the show. Your unconscious nervous system's running the show. It's trying to protect you, not keep you happy, protect you. so this is where I like to interrupt that and go. Your body did its best to protect you and it did a damn good job. And but this isn't who you are. This is who you had to be in that moment and how you had to show up and how what you had to who had to step in front of your true self. you to be safe, whether it's belonging, managing chaos, managing physical safety or threat or financial, whatever it was, that understanding and and when I think about like different aspects of my life, so in midlife too, what am I leaning into? Right? What am I expanding into? And just because I used to identify with something or do something doesn't mean that that's my forever self. So the passion project, well, we dabble a little bit here, we dab a little bit there, we polish this up, we bring that out. Maybe put that part away. of course, always from a place of I like myself and I'm already worthy. I'm just growing, expanding, and getting curious and letting things open up in front of me. I said of well, I gotta fix all my flaws and I gotta fix my body and I gotta fix my job and I gotta fix my relationship. It's exhausting. Okay, stop, stop with that, right?
Sasha Pearl: I'm tired already.
Ramona Kossowan: So think more about yeah, I like to remind women of that too, because they start to get that inner dialogue, the inner critic is very loud with. relational trauma is there's nothing wrong with you. Right? There's parts of you that are hurting right now or maybe need to feel safe, but there's nothing wrong with you.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so is that like just line of questioning really supportive of like us becoming our own passion project? Or like what are some things to like bring into our lives or journal or like do to really hone in and embody that we are, well, inherently worthy. We are the pro we are the passion project. And how yeah, how do we do that?
Ramona Kossowan: I like to start with baby steps, excuse me, and it's usually along the line of some kind of self-care, not just like eating and sleeping and stuff, but what are you doing that's not necessary? So what gives you little bits of joy, comfort, relief, peace, fun, excitement that is not necessary, but it's good for you. Like, for example, a number of years ago, I was revisiting the idea that I wanted to take singing lessons. And for me being a yeah, like being a walled up that was really hard, right? So vulnerable. I may as well have laid my soul out on the carpet, right? So but I knew it was something that it crossed my mind even as a teenager, but I just thought, that's not who I am, and I never did it. Never did it. And then it kept coming up. I'm like, okay, fine, universe, I'll go take some singing lessons, right? But for me, I just think it's what my soul needed. I needed to express that part part of me that felt like really sweet.
Sasha Pearl: Uh-huh.
Ramona Kossowan: and beautiful and open and that was the opposite of what I learned to survive. and I revisit that again a bit later. And it wasn't 'cause I'm performing anywhere, but it's just something for me. My heart was drawn to it. Who cares why? Right? So sometimes we gotta think about it in those terms too, not just did you eat your vegetables today?
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, it does make you feel good, but I don't know, it's not that fun.
Ramona Kossowan: Well, I I love, you know, the foundation of self care. I'm all about that. But we gotta think about
Sasha Pearl: There you go.
Ramona Kossowan: what else is there? Like it's not just the practical stuff. Like,
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: let's stop counting macros for just a second and think about what brings you joy.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. Yeah, I signed up for our dance classes. I was like, I wanna learn how to twerk. So I'm gonna go do that.
Ramona Kossowan: I don't know how people do that. I don't think my spine does that, my tailbone would literally detach. I I I just don't know how to do that.
Sasha Pearl: But the point is it's like I need to move my body. If like we're we're walking, we're sitting down every day, everything just feels so structured sometimes. I was just like like this photo in the back. I'm like, I want to feel like that most of the time. Like I just wanna be like throwing my hair
Ramona Kossowan: Yeah.
Sasha Pearl: back and just like there's like no care in the world. well that would be part of my passion project, you know.
Ramona Kossowan: Yeah, like even from the sense of, like say you're rebuilding after a loss or a hard time in your life, piece by piece, you're adding stuff in and you're releasing what doesn't serve you anymore, but you're not think treating yourself as flawed. Like we don't take a chunk of marble, this marble's flawed, give me one that has a statue, right? So we we start like carving out the pieces. So even working with women with falling in love with strengthening their body and and mobilizing their body because we gotta love our b our body. We can't be our most empowered self if our body's neglected. It just doesn't work like that. So especially
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: with a lot of women I work with are over 40, over 50, and even over 60, you gotta adopt some things as part of your identity. And it's like I'm always gonna be focused on being strong. I'm always gonna focus on, you know, being fueled, and I'm always gonna focus on my mobility because I'm living in this body to the end and I prefer not to be on a gurney. So it's, you know, I wanna have fun, sexy life, not you know, sidelines. So it's what am what am I adding in? And and sometimes it's easier not to do certain things, of course, but when it starts to become part of your identity, it's not such a big deal.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I was actually, I haven't gone to a yoga class in, I don't know, maybe what nine months to year. I have no. I keep saying I go in to get a massage and I'm like, I really just need to go to yoga. And I just like wouldn't do it, wouldn't do it. You know, having soas issues. I just had a hip kind of dislocate, doing all the strength training, but no mobility. And I'm just like my I feel like a prisoner in my body. And I go into yoga this morning and this like insight just dropped in. It was like, you cannot be free ever. in any aspect of your life if your body is trapped. And it just felt like so profound in the moment that I was like, wow, I have to practice like physically opening my body. Cause that's also going to support me in emotionally opening up to receive the abundance, the money, the careers, the opportunities that I truly that I truly want. And it like goes back into just like how much wisdom our body really holds if we can be present just enough to listen and feel safe enough in our bodies to do that.
Ramona Kossowan: Yeah. Like it's
Sasha Pearl: So go for it.
Ramona Kossowan: sometimes women are t are told like just listen to your body or but sometimes the trauma's in the way because it disconnects you from your intuition. So don't beat yourself up if you're not all in line and you you guys are all like this besties when you're you're you've left your body for an extended
Sasha Pearl: Yes.
Ramona Kossowan: period of time. but little things bring you back too. It's you might leave again, but For example, even I'll go and do a a workout, sometimes I'll have an emotional release just doing a workout because something's processing in my body and I'm I'm out of my head and I'm in my body in a way that feels safe to me.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: So I wouldn't tell someone to go meditate if they don't like meditating, but maybe there's something else you can do that gets you in your body.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, absolutely. It's always about I feel like sometimes I forget that we're in relationship to everything, right? Like even the desks that I sit at, the environments I'm in, this conversation that we're having. And it's like that relationship with your body is also something you have to co-create with, right? And for me, it's like, yoga, stretching, mobility stuff. That is actually what's going to help me move through the stuckness that I have been feeling on, you know, on certain levels. So for you, how How do we create safety from within? How do we bring it back into our bodies when it doesn't feel safe because of the traumas that we've had or things that we've experienced?
Ramona Kossowan: We have to consider our situation. Some people have a more supportive situation and some less so. So how can I create safety externally? Like maybe it's financial. Maybe I need to build some resources in my life and connect with people or organizations or groups or mentors or friends who are able to add that additional safety for me. But one of the big things that comes along with trauma healing is learning to stop abandoning yourself. So this made it sound like jargon. So really it's when you deny your own inner truth repeatedly. So if you say yes when you want to say no, if you lack a boundary or you allow a boundary to be encroached out of discomfort, that's telling your your inner child, I'll abandon you for this. So when you actually start to be your own advocate and have standards and boundaries for yourself, you start to create safety because your unconscious, your little inner girl starts to know, I've got ya. I'm not leaving you on the street corner, I'm not surrendering you. I I've got your back and I'm not going to abandon you to overfunction, people please, whatever it is.
Sasha Pearl: This brings up the idea of like advocating for myself that feels like I sometimes I lack consistency with things. And so then it there's this identity of like, I don't trust myself to commit to the things that I say. And so I guess I want to hear you speak a little bit more about like how does that translate to self-advocacy when sometimes you are very advocating for yourself and when you are and then sometimes you're just like just like not there.
Ramona Kossowan: Yeah, it g it does
Sasha Pearl: Not in it.
Ramona Kossowan: really depend on your experiences because if your nervous system is experiencing a trigger in real time and the past is being resurrected in your body, sometimes all you gotta do is you could just gotta ride it out. And you're not gonna advocate in that moment because you're in freeze. And it's just about recognizing that. but where
Sasha Pearl: Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay.
Ramona Kossowan: would we look for is The patterns. So if there's a person or situation where there's a boundary needed, this is where you can look with curiosity first. And sometimes it's not even about constantly dukes up fighting for yourself, it's like I'm exiting this conversation. I you no longer have a seat at my table. This is an inner dialogue, not an outer dialogue, but they do not have a seat at my table anymore. If I have to protect myself from them continually. They access can be revoked.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: it's even just like for me when I was going through my first initial stages of starting to recognize I was not liking myself and not treating myself like I liked myself. I I stopped trying to insert myself into circles where I felt I was judged, excluded, misunderstood. I just stopped. Nope. I'll have no friends before I'll do that. So I just it's
Sasha Pearl: Cut through it. Yeah.
Ramona Kossowan: Seriously, no. Like it made me feel like shit. Right. So I'm like, this sucks. I'm not doing this anymore. And you know, if someone's determined to have a story about me or misjudge me or misunderstand me, and no one needs to like me, they don't have to like me. I'm I'm not. I'm not trying to insert myself anymore. And I stopped caring. And that made
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm.
Ramona Kossowan: it easier to connect with people who were actually right for me.
Sasha Pearl: Mm-hmm. I yeah, I mean, I don't think I understood the importance of curating the environments, the relationships that that actually support you, because you when you step into communities that are actually supportive, you become it almost it like I feel whole. Like I'm like, I can finally be expressed without the worries of the judgments or the other people. Where previous like in my early twenties when it was all about like quantity over quality at that point, it was just like you're a shell of a human when you're in the wrong environments. You're like, I don't know why this isn't working out. You know what I mean?
Ramona Kossowan: You know what I mean? Yeah, I think because I was lonely at that stage of my life too, I I had a little bit of FOMO. Well, what if I miss this opportunity to socialize
Sasha Pearl: Yeah.
Ramona Kossowan: and maybe work my way in a little bit more? I'm like, nah, screw it. No, just no. Right. So
Sasha Pearl: Yeah. Well, I would leave and I'd be like, I don't even feel fulfilled by this like what I just experienced and you know, wasted not wasted, but you know, spent three hours in hanging out with this group of people and I'm like, I'm not I don't even feel seeing it here. I don't even know what I was doing. Right. Yeah.
Ramona Kossowan: Yeah. Yeah, I'd be like, I felt invisible in that situation and I'm not I'm not invisible. I'm not that boring. So it just it's like, no, this is gross. Nope.
Sasha Pearl: Yeah, no. well, we're gonna start wrapping up here. I love to ask this question at the end of every podcast. So if someone were to really know you, what would they need to know about you?
Ramona Kossowan: Do you want me to tell a story or just Laura a little bit more about me?
Sasha Pearl: Whatever your whatever your intuition says, whatever is landing.
Ramona Kossowan: Well, I think here's something that a woman reflected back to me because sometimes I'm too close to myself to see how I'm experienced. but she said, You need to have Ramona in your corner. She's fierce. I'm like, interesting. So it's when I'm in your corner, I'm fierce. I'm fierce about what you're worthy of. I'm fierce about being outraged about what was wrong. I'm fierce about shutting down. the inner critic and the things that are causing you pain. And I'm fierce about you grabbing on to things that bring you joy and fulfillment and seem exciting, even though a little bit scary. They can be little things like me taking singing lessons. To me it was a big deal. Right. So I I like that because I am fierce about that. Like when you sit down with me, I got your back, I'm in your corner. And and the same thing with with friends as well and loved ones. Like I'm a fierce advocate.
Sasha Pearl: I'm obsessed with that. I love that. Because sometimes you
Ramona Kossowan: Ha ha ha.
Sasha Pearl: just need that other person to just believe in you more than you can believe in yourself in the moment that you're experiencing the lowness of life, right? So I just love that you get to be that that light, that love, that fierceness in the world. So, Ramona, it was so lovely to have you on the podcast. How can people Connect with you, work with you.
Ramona Kossowan: Well, you can certainly access my two free guides. One is called the Gentle Trauma Assessment, which is to explore physical, emotional, and cognitive symptoms that can be connected with trauma and just get curious. Or my guide of who's running the show and explore some of your archetypes. And of course I'm on socials, so under under Ramona K coaching, or my name. So there's a few different ways you can connect. I'm always happy to have a conversation.
Sasha Pearl: Awesome. Well thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Ramona Kossowan: Thank you, it's a pleasure.
Sasha Pearl: It was a pleasure.
